Furled leader question

[Ken Y]

I make my own leaders and came up with this question. I was fishing with a thread 6/0 uni-thread leader for dry flies, and the leader sank. I put on some mucilin, but it still sank. So, is the wax on the thread making the fly sink? I was thinking of using the gudebrod rod wrapping thread (no waxes) and soaking them in the loon silicon stuff, or in watershed and letting them dry. has anyone tried this? How do ya'll make your furled leaders float?

[Fry Flier]

Myself I find that the Uni thread is great for dries. I myself will treat with Red mucilin and it is my preferred treatment and let me stress "my preferred treatment". It will last 45 mins. to an hour than I treat again.

[JohnScott]

...How do ya'll make your furled leaders float?

I don't.

I use thread furled leaders made from Danville 210 Flymaster Plus fly tying thread. The leaders submerge, but they don't sink the fly ( down to size 20 2X short CDC midge dry ). I personally think you get a better drift with a submerged leader. Maybe not as nice a cast ?? But it really is about the drift, isn't it ??

John

[FISHN50]

I've been making my furled leaders either out of Isacord 40 or Mono, mostly Cortland Camo 2 lb. When I lay out my loops ,if it's to be a floating leader I'll rub a rag with Alboline on it down the legs a few times & then again after I furl it. They float most of the day.
If your putting on the wax after the leader is waterlogged it's like closing the barn door after th horse is out, in other words it's too late, put it on while the leader is dry.
I read , somewhere on this Forum, that a good floor wax will work if you put it on when making the leader & I've made a few using Min-wax but haven't had a chance to test them yet. I also read that some people dip them in varnish & then hang them & wipe them down to get the excess off & that's supposed to both waterproof them & toughen them up

[Cold]

I have a store bought one that I treated with a triple coat of Watershed before it ever saw water, as well as a triple coat of green Mucilin. It's just starting to submerge after prolonged fishing, so I plan to hit it with the Mucilin again soon.

[Mojo]

I've been using Mucillin for a few years now on UNI leaders. Never had a problem. I grease my fly with it too. I've got both red and green tins. I don't notice any difference on the leaders though.
I just run the leader thru the pad and work it in with my thumb and finger. Last's me quite a while.

[Fly Goddess]

One question....is the leader already wet when you apply the Muclin?
Got to be dry. I usually carry two. If one gets a little water logged, I switch it out and it has time to dry out.
I agree with John however that I prefer them sub surface, but I make mine with a first section indicator and I like to grease that.
I fish down to #32.

[Bamboozle]

Cleaning your thread furled leaders once in awhile helps too. I use the same sponge, soap & water I use on my fly lines.

The next day I grease them with Loon Payette paste and they float like a cork which is what I prefer.

[Steven McGarthwaite]

UNI thread is polyester, so that means the thread will absorb water, and become water logged, if not sealed after furling....

Danville thread is nylon, and does not absorb water.....

UNI polyester thread does not stretch before breaking, but Danvile nylon thread stretches before breaking.

I use UNI polyester thread for my furled leaders, to eliminate as much streaching in the furled leader (when under tension) as possible.

I also seal my furled leaders theads, with a dip in a container of varnish, then hang them to dry and harden. I wipe all excess varnish on the surface of the furled leader off, using a rag dampened with varnish. This removes any heavy varnish buildup on the surface, and will give the finished furled leader a smooth finish.

The varnish, penetrates to the core of the furled leader, and helps bond all the threads, helping the whole furled leader to transfer the energy of the cast and fly presentaion. The vanish gives the furled leader some backbone for a better cast also.

I use my own formula, and you just need to give me your loop sequece and length (s) I will crunch the numbers.

I will give you a furled leader that is completely balanced, with a parabolic taper.

Send your request to parnelli@comcast.net
Subject Line: Furled Leaders

[JohnScott]

Parnelli -

Seems to me that the varnish treatment will stiffen the leader, and perhaps very much so. That would enhance the casting qualities and maybe make the leader float endlessly, but it seems to me that it will inhibit the ability of the leader to absorb all the mini-currents between the end of the fly line and the fly.

The thing about floating leaders is that they only absorb the currents between the end of the fly line and the fly in TWO dimensions. When the leader is submerged it is absorbing those currents in THREE dimensions. The better the currents between the end of the fly line and the fly are absorbed by the leader, the better the drift. And, after all, isn't the drift what it is really all about ??

Another thing came up in a discussion with one of my friends today. We both fished the same stream in the past week, separately. He used a tapered mono leader from Rio and I used my Danville thread leader which submerges. He missed a high proportion of "takes" by pulling the fly away from the fish. I hooked a much higher proportion of "takes".

He is a better fisherman with a better sense of timing, and even thinks about letting the fish get the fly before he raises the rod tip and strips. I just start to raise the rod tip and strip when it seems right. What occured to me is that his mono leader which is floating and in a pretty straight line to the fly in two dimensions starts moving the fly as soon as he raises / strips. Because mine has a lot of "slack" in it as it drifts along all curled up and swirling around in three dimensions, I don't pull the fly away from the fish, even if I start my raise / strip sooner than he would.

Stretch is not necessarily a bad thing, and for some situations is definitely a good thing. For fishing for trout in moving water in the Intermountain West, I consider it a good thing. The Danville 210 Flymaster leaders are very supple, and if stretch comes with it, that is a small price to pay. Admittedly, they don't cast the fly as well as a couple others I've tried, but I'm not out there to cast.

The most desirable qualities of a leader will be different for different people with different priorities and different fishing situations. I know there are a number of people who agree that leaders that submerge are preferable for trout fishing on moving water. I wonder how many people who pursue "floatation" techniques so ardently have ever tried the alternative - the submerged leader ??

John

P.S. Next time out, my friend is going to use a furled thread leader as an experiment. Will be interesting to see what comes of it.