Substitution and relavance

[perch]

I am about to tie up some Prince nymphs for a trip that I have comming up and have no Brown goose biots. The recipie calls for "Goose" biots. I have got a goodly batch of turkey biots on hand . Is there any real difference of performance between turkey and goose biots?
Thanks ,
perch

[DG]

I suspect they will catch fish just as well. Fly tiers run the spectrum from those who will tie a fly EXACTLY as shown in the recipe, to those who will tie whatever they can concoct to catch fish. I find myself well towards the latter end of that scale, and am happy in my position.

In other words, it is ENTIRELY up to you how you tie the flies. There are no rules, no Fly Police who will come to your house and inspect your flies for historical accuracy and traditional values.

There are just fish and people with opinons.

Having stated mine, I will sign off.

Dennis

[Jax]

Well other than the fact you know that one is Goose and the Other Turkey. I can't for the life of me think how the trout will be any the wiser.

However if a trout comes up and studies your fly using a Jewelers Loop and a Micrometer, then refuses it. Please E-mail me the Location. Have Fun. Jax

[peregrines]

Perch-

I think you'll find the turkey biots are even easier to work with than goose because they're longer and easier so handle and should be fine as tails and "wings" on the prince and tails antennae on stonefly nymphs--- and it's an even better choice than goose IMHO for wrapping biot bodies and I substitute it all the time in dry and emerger recipes that call for goose biots (since they're longer than goose you can get more wraps out of them to cover longer shanks and/or have more to grab when wrapping)

mark

[Clay]

There are no rules, no Fly Police who will come to your house and inspect your flies for historical accuracy and traditional values.

Have to disagree Dennis, I can point to many examples of Fly Police. Not only here, but at my local TU and local fly fishing shops.


I do have to agree that I am not one of them and often "go rogue" and tie patterns with no only substitutions but flies that I take different characteristics from other standard patterns and "Mix 'em up" to creaste something that has no name but catches fish.

Life's grand perch, do whatever you want.

Rick

[perch]

Thanks for the input. My primary concern was in the idea that the goose might have some oil or other "goosey" sort of substance rendering it more advisable for subsurface activity.
Now that we've gotten that out of the way ...
tying shall commence.
Thankyou,
perch

[Clay]

Thanks for the input. My primary concern was in the idea that the goose might have some oil or other "goosey" sort of substance rendering it more advisable for subsurface activity.
Now that we've gotten that out of the way ...
tying shall commence.
Thankyou,
perch

I think that you are thinking along the right lines for dry fly applications but the prince is a wet. When selecting materials for drys its nice to select water animals or birds.

Your thinking.

[Denny]

The Prince Nymph is one of my go to flys. I seldom use Peacock herl but prefer black mole skin, in a dubbing loop, as it sinks the fly a bit below the surface.
As for Biots I much prefer using the first two wing (primary) feathers from a hen Peacock.
They are sort of a brown/white feather and if I want black I just hit them with a prismacolor pen. I seldom use goose.
I am sure you can use whatever you have on your desk and the fish will have to be your judge.
Of course I seldom tie traditional patterns for my personal fishing. (Too many years commercial tying). I say try different materials, different colors and let the fish tell you what works best an a given day.

Tie lots, go fishin!

Denny

[Eight Thumbs]

Hi Perch,

There are few materials in fly tying that don't have several good substitutes. I'm a firm believer in using what you have even if you need to take a Sharpie Marker to it in order to get the right color. Jungle cock eyes/nails are the one exception to this rule. Remember, use what you have and don't worry about it. 8T

[Bass_Bug]

Since geese and turkeys smell different, you dont suppose using one over the other affects the scent??? Then again, maybe we better not go down THAT road again!

My opinion on substitution is, if it is that close (ones birds biots over another) there should BE no problem substituting. And I'm betting once tied no average fly tyer will be able to tell.

A fellow fly tyer once said, if he changes a pattern with a signifagant difference, he would say its a "<name the pattern> with this material instead of that". For instance, tying a Royal Wulff with blue floss instead of traditional red, he would say "It's a Blue version of the Royal Wulff".

However I have sevral different colors of peacock herl. If I tie a royal Wulff with red-herl (only slightly red in color) is it still a Royal Wulff? Basically. Does anyone care? If it works, why should they?.