Please critique this fly...

[coughlin]

Warren, good deal. Let me know when you're ready and I'll send my address via pm. Will certainly send something in return.
Coughlin

[Jeremy]

I really appreciate all the constructive reviews on this fly and I have made a couple more up and I tied one up with a narrower red band and larger eyes which were suggested by "flymaker2" and enclosed a picture of it. Once again, there is a tungsten bead incorporated into the head of the fly and the eyes are painted on the bead. It is not a barbell eye so the fly should not turn over and ride hook up. We will see after I get a chance to try it out on the river. My main goal was to create a smaller streamer that would come closer to matching the small fry which are in the rivers here at the present time plus I wanted it to go deeper faster and that is the purpose of the 2.8mm tungsten bead incorporated into the head of the fly. I am also hoping that the smaller size will cast better on my 4 weight. I do appreciate the suggestions from all you fly tyers.

Warren, that's a very good looking pattern~ Perhaps a strand or two of Krystalflash?

Don't forget about that word "sparse" tho.

Jeremy.

[kelkay]

I like the second fly better as well. A tiny bit more sparse, add a couple of strands of Krystal Flash as somebody else mentioned. It should work great! It does resemble a Thunder Creek. If you like the Thunder Creek style...you can make it with a few lead wraps if you want the fly to go further down in the water column. Regardless, both the flies you posted will catch fish, and I like both patterns. The second picture I especially like. Good job!

[EdD]

Warren, I'll second what kelkay said.

I'm sure that you'll take dozens of hapless Brownies on the Elk and a rainbow or two from the Duck,this week.
I'll be rotting in my cube. <grump-grump-grump>

Have fun, SOMEbody's got to. (Watch out, you never know where Betty will show up.)


Ed

[WarrenP]

Well I got up this morning and there was a wind blowing which tells me that we do have a front of some kind coming through today. Around noon the sky was very dark and it looked like it could start raining at any time, but, I decided I had to try the flies (I tied up 5) somewhere to see what they did in the water. Not wanting to drive the 22 miles to the best trout water on the Elk River and getting rained out, I chose to go to the Duck River, which is only about 12 miles, and that way I could be close to the truck if the weather turned bad. The Duck is running about 70 degrees so I did not expect to find any trout. As I drove to the Duck there were a few drops of rain falling on the windshield but I drove on and when I got to the Duck there were already some people fishing where I wanted to try the flies so I drove up to the boat ram on Normandy Lake and decided to see how the fly worked. I tied on the last fly I posted a picture of and dropped it in the water to see if it turned over or rode hook down. As soon as it was in the water 3 bluegill attacked it! On the second cast I caught a Kentucky Largemouth bass about 8 inches long and a few casts later had a Smallmouth bass about 8 inches long. Could not get a picture of the Smallmouth because he got off before I could get the camera out of the vest. Well, I know the fish like it. I did notice that the fly did turn over, so, I guess I will need to reverse the colors. I do not understand how using a bead makes the fly turn over unless it is because of where I placed the bead. I did not tie the bead in against the hook eye. It is tied in about 1/8" or a little less behind the eye. I think I will tie one up tonight with the bead up against the hook eye and try it to see if the fly still turns over and rides hook up. If it does, I have to wonder if my other trout flies (flymphs, etc.) ride hook up also because of the bead. It clouded up again and it rained a little but no lightening so I continued on with fishing. Decided to drive back down to the river and see if the other fishermen were still there and they had left. I fished under the bridge and did not find any trout. Checked the water temperature in the shaded area from the overhead bridge and found the water at 70 degrees. Not good for any trout. I tried all the other flies and they all turned over or onto their sides, so, move the bead against the fly and see if that changes and if it does not, then reverse the colors. In the Duck River I did manage to catch 4 Black Perch, one bluegill and one walleye all on the first fly I posted. So, I do not think the width of the red band made any difference to the fish. Overall, I did learn that the fly will catch fish and that the bead makes it turn over and ride hook up or to the side. I think I will try it tomorrow in the Elk River on the trout and see what they think. I will retie some of the flies tonight and put the bead against the hook to see if it still turns the fly over and I will also tie some with the colors reversed. I am thinking about tying some in the "round". In other words, the material will go all around the hook so that it will not make any difference if the hook is up, down or to the side, the fly will still look the same. A lot like a bugger is tied.

So, if the weather permits tomorrow, I will find out if the bead up against the eye makes the hook turn over and I will try some with the colors reversed and try one tied in the "round". I honestly think, after seeing the fly in the water today, that the trout will love it and it just may produce some of the larger trout in the Elk River looking for minnows. Had a good time experimenting and still went over to my Mom's house and mowed her yard before the sky did open up and we got a nice rain. Here are some pictures of the fish today:

[flymaker2]

Thanks, flymaker2, your comments are appreciated. Hopefully, tomorrow, we will see how it reacts to river currents and see if we can get some feedback from a fish!

You are welcome WarrenP. So to capture all the critiques given so far: Keep the narrow red gill band, bigger eyes, and then return to the sparse tie of the original image and then add a little flash to taste. The hurl on the back is always a good idea on bait batterns IMO. Doesn't take much to get the contrast. You could try the pattern with no flash, then a tye with one strand and another with hurl and a few strands. By the time you are done you'll have a pattern worth repeating! Good luck and have fun..

Edit:

Saw the report. Nice going: I feel the reason that the fly turned upside down is because you are using a hook with a downturned eye. Think about it. Streamers are best tied with upturned hook eyes. Orvis makes streamer hooks with the hook eye vertical. I like these and use them too. My favorite streamer hooks are from Galic Supreme which have a slightly upturned eye. Owner makes some good hooks with upturned eyes. Try a new hook style before re-inventing the pattern that seems to be working for you. Just my 3 cents again..

Cool pics!..

[WarrenP]

flymaker2,

After my experimenting today, see my other post, I will incorporate all the changes you mentioned in the flies tonight and if the weather permits, I will be out on the Elk River tomorrow to see how they do on the trout. Won't be able to stay real late because we have our Lynchburg Fly Fishing club meeting at the campgrounds on Normandy Lake at 6:30pm and I plan to make to freezers of ice cream for it. One freezer of Root Beer ice cream and one of Sun Drop ice cream. May be late before I get home from it, so, I may not be able to post a fishing report until Wednesday.

Just in case someone wants to know how the ice cream will be made:

All you need to do is mix one can of sweetened condensed milk with one 2 liter bottle of your favorite soda and freeze it. Very easy and very good.

[kelkay]

It was exciting to get your report. I tied a couple of heavy bead head flies, and now I am wondering if mine are gonna flop over on me too. I think they eye is straight/horizontal...so maybe they will be okay. Thanks for that update...I knew they would catch fish, I had no doubt about that!

[WarrenP]

I did retie the little streamer and put the tungsten bead up against the hook eye and tied 2 others and reversed the colors. I did get a little time yesterday, Tuesday, to go to the trout river and give them a try. What I found was the bead did turn the fly over no matter where the bead was placed. I think "flymaker2" has nailed it and that is the turned down eye of the hook is what is really causing the turn over. Since I do not own any up turned eye hooks, I cannot test that, but, when I look at the hook in the vise with the bead on it, I feel "flymaker2" is right on. I did not get any "takers" on the streamer yesterday. I watched the trout chase it down and just nip at it but would never take it. I was a little discouraged because I really like the looks of the streamer and enjoy fishing it, but, I knew I would be going back today with more time to fish, so, I kept my spirits up.

Today, Wednesday, Tom Roberts ("doublewide" on FAOL) and I fished the Elk River and once again I gave the little streamer a good try, but, no takers! I decided that I needed to catch some trout, so, I removed the little streamer and tied on my version of a "Reversed Spider" and caught 15 brown trout and had that many on that just came "unbuttoned". They were not monsters, but, they sure were a lot of fun. Tom probably had as many as I caught and, he to, caught his on the "Reversed Spider". As we were fishing, I noticed that my legs were very numb and I decided to check the water temperature. It was 50 degrees! Unless you are a trout fisherman/fisherwomen, there is no way you can explain to anyone how you could be so cold on such a very hot and humid day as today was in Tennessee! Tom told me his feet felt like he had been out rabbit hunting on a very cold day! Overall, we both had a great day and I have not given up on my streamer. I think it might do better if I just get out my NuCanoe and get somewhere on the river that is less traveled by fly fishermen. I feel the larger trout will take the streamer. When I get the chance to make the float trip, I will report the results.

I have attached a picture of a little blue critter that stayed with me most of the day and I just liked its company and thought it was pretty. I also attached a picture of just one of the 15 browns I caught today and I attached a picture of my version of the "Reversed Spider" which I find works real well late summer into the fall of the year.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

coughlin - send me a PM with your home mailing address on it and I will send you some samples of my little streamer and maybe you can give a better report on smallies.

[Bad Luck Larry]

[QUOTE=WarrenP;313011]Well I got up this morning and there was a wind blowing which tells me that we do have a front of some kind coming through today. Around noon the sky was very dark and it looked like it could start raining at any time, but, I decided I had to try the flies (I tied up 5) somewhere to see what they did in the water. Not wanting to drive the 22 miles to the best trout water on the Elk River and getting rained out, I chose to go to the Duck River, which is only about 12 miles, and that way I could be close to the truck if the weather turned bad. The Duck is running about 70 degrees so I did not expect to find any trout. As I drove to the Duck there were a few drops of rain falling on the windshield but I drove on and when I got to the Duck there were already some people fishing where I wanted to try the flies so I drove up to the boat ram on Normandy Lake and decided to see how the fly worked. I tied on the last fly I posted a picture of and dropped it in the water to see if it turned over or rode hook down. As...



Warren...

The fly looks great....just fine.

I've also have heard about down vs. up turned eyes influencing how the hook rides, but still haven't really confirmed it all.
Is there a possibility that the wing you've made (looks like bucktail) is too thick, making the hook ride up? Maybe, thin it out a little or spread it around the hook evenly?


My mentor always said ( and I DO believe it): "EVERY fly, WILL catch a fish....it's just a matter of when."

Keep tying and enjoy!


Cheers,
Larry


PS
Oh, and if you're going to use krystal flash or hurl, a little goes a long way!