Trials and Tribultations

[MarkF]

6/21/09

Trials and Tribulations

Well, I have been doing the fly thing now for three years. I have amassed rods, reels, lines, flies, a vise, loads of feathers and stuff and a love for this sport. I have now done it just long enough to have overcome most newbie mistakes, had grand experiences with beginners luck and have moved to a point I am disappointed in my perceived lack of progress. My last trip to a mostly meadow stream environment in New Mexico, the Rio Penasco, has left me more questions than answers.

My Questions Center around:
1. Knots
2. Droppers, kinda related to number 1
3. Breakage of tippet
4. Wet Flies.

Knots: I have been using clinch and improved clinch to tie files to tippet. Mono tippet, I use the clinch. Fluorocarbon tippet I use the improved clinch. I need a better knot for the fluoro. Prior to my conversion from being a dreaded bait guy, I used the Palmor knot with fluoro, it worked well. However, as y?all know, aint no way the eye of a size 20 fly will allow a double pass through of the line. I am using Frog Hair 5X fluoro tippet and perhaps that is the problem. My fluoro knots are just not holding. I am losing some fish to knot slippage.

Droppers: We do a lot of two fly nymphing. Have a larger nymph over a dropper in say size 20-22. I have been typing the dropper line to the bend of the upper flies hook. This has become a painfully slow process. This is kinda two questions. Where do you tie your dropper line and what knot do you use?

Breakage: I have been using Cabala?s four packs of 5X trout tapered leaders. This trip I experienced a great deal of breakage. Did I get a bad batch, or have y?all experienced that?

Wet Flies: When do you use them? Found a very deep, swift, turbulent pool dropping from 3? rock ledge. There were many feeding trout. Used a parachute hopper. Water was so turbulent it would only float a little while and then would need drying. One time I got distracted and it was under. I made a strip to see if I could spot it, and bam, fish on. I tried this technique some more and caught 8 in a row on a submerged (wet) hopper. I have never fished wet, have not read about wet. When do y?all go to wet flies? There are not many shown in fly selections, is that because they are seldom used or what?

[Ron Eagle Elk]

MarkF,

I'll try to be of as much help as I can.

1. Knots, I refuse to use flouro tippet, so I'm not much help there. I'm a creature of habit and I'm used to tying the improved clinch knot. I've had problems with that knot and flouro so I just use mono.

2. Knots. Besides the answer in #1 I use two knots for droppers. If I'm just adding a dropper to a single fly I tie onto the top fly at the bend of the hook with an improved clinch knot. If I'm taking the time to make a multi fly rig I use a blood knot to attach tippet to the leader and leave the tag end of the thicker material about 8 inches long. I tie the flies onto those tag ends. I have fished three flies effectively using this method with a minimal amount of tangling.

3. How old is the leader/tippet material. I replace all of my leaders (except the furled leaders) and tippet material at the start of every season. Has it been left in a hot car, in direct sunlight? That weakens the material. If it's more than a year old, I'd replace it. Better safe than sorry.

4. When do I use wet flies. Almost all the time. I'm a big fan of wet flies and dry flies fished sunk. They just seem to always work when nothing else will (as you found out with the drowned hopper). If fish are actively and heavily feeding on the surface I'll throw a dry fly. Other than that I'll fish a wet fly tied on a dry fly hook, a wet fly tied on a standard wet fly hook or a wet fly tied on a heavy wire hook depending on whow deep I think the fish are. I carry several wet fly patterns that are simple to tie (hook, thread and hackle) that are over 200 years old. They're still around because they still work and very well.

Try fishing wets like you would a dry, with an upstream cast. This allows the fly to sink a bit more. Try to keep the rod tip pointing at the fly as it floats downstream toward you, also try to keep the line fairly straight so you can detect a subtle hit. As the fly goes by you continue to follow it with the rod tip. You can let out a bit more line if needed for a longer drag free drift. As the line starts to go tight the fly will start to rise to the surface. This entices a lot of strikes. Once the fly is hanging on a tight line directly below you, let it hang for a couple seconds then do a few short strips before recasting upstream. A fly hanging "on the dangle" will also ring the fish dinner bell. Takes on the downstream float are more easily detected.

Hope this helps.

REE

[Jack Hise]

Mark;
Google "Eugene Bend". A knot that works well on both mono & fluorcarbon.

I don't fish dropers for the very same reasons so we could both use some help!

You say you're using 5X tapered leaders from Cabela's. Yes you could have gotten a bad batch or some that had been on the shelf too long.
I'd suggest trying a "Furled Leader" made of Uni 6/0 tying thread. If treated with floatant it will float all day and if properly cared for will last a couple of seasons! PM your mailing address and I'll send you one (I'm making up several for my trip to Michigan).

About all we fish here in my part of Tennessee are wet fly's. You learned one part of wet fly fishing when you were "Distracted"! I don't know how many fish I've caught at the end of the swing and just letting it sit while I let my mind wander! Weighted to sink or unweighted to get higher in the water column!? Big and fuzzy or small soft hackle!?

Looks like REE beat me!!

[Normand]

droppers

[MarkF]

Jack: Checked out the Eugene Bend, could the 'tag' end be used to tie dropper on? I need to stop typing and go try it for myself, don't I. I will let ya know.

[Mike Ormsby]

Check out the resources links on my blog....don't care if you read blog LOL LOL...but extensive resources links especially on knots on site....link to blog is below

[CO_Flyfisher]

Another good knot to try that WarrenP showed me while I was in Tennessee is the Davy Wotton knot. It is VERY easy to tie.

Because it is so simple, it is fast to tie yet it is small and strong. The key is making sure to hold the tag end parallel to the hook shank and pull it tight before pulling the main line. The actual Wotton knot starts with the hook upside-down, but I?m not sure if that matters. I?m done with improved clinch knots! The only drawback I?ve heard is on large line, but no problems with what we use in fly-fishing. This knot supposedly doesn?t put friction on the standing line as it tightens up, so it is less likely to break off on a fish. I was told you don?t even really need to moisten (spit on) the line before tightening.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos...=10#1000234562

http://www.pechetruite.com/Noeuds/Davy-knot.htm

I also found this: "There is one major point to remember when you snug the knot taught. Always hold the tag end and draw the knot down by pulling the tag, while holding the upper. As a rule l hold the fly and tag at the same time.

After the knot has been set tight the tag can be cut, the knot will not slip. In the case of using a larger hook and fine diameter line, when you make the second over and under turn, do the same again, the knot will not slip, l have used this for tarpon and many other saltwater species."

Another good point: "Another advantage to this knot which has not been mentioned is that it creates the least amount of leader waste. Done properly you'd only loose 1/4 inch or less of your leader for each fly change."

Tight lines!

[CO_Flyfisher]

Also, I use method #2 from Normand's post when fishing multiple nymphs using the same strength tippet (I do this a LOT), and method #1 for dry-dropper rigs.

[Fishin' Jimmy]

Some resources that would be helpful; Books by Sylvester Nemes, The late Al Campbell
here on FAOL Shwapf fly and FAOL's departed founder James Castwell's Wet Adams would be a great easy wet's to tye. All these flies will catch fish!

One last though check out Tenkara USA, Japaneese Wet fly fishing.

Fishin' Jimmy

[JMG]

About knots - I fish so little or am getting sufficiently aged that I have to keep relearning them so since I have to keep relearning them, I wanted to be relearning the best. In his book "Fly-Fish Better: Practical Advice on Tackle, Methods and Flies", Art Scheck reports doing a lot of knot comparisons in a testing rig, tying one on one end and other on the other of a piece of tippet and pulling to find the winner, doing enough to use "three quarters of a mile of fishing line". In the end, the knots he shows how to tie in his book are the ligature (Kreh's simple blood) knot and the Orvis tippet (Christopher or Improved Figure Eight) knot for line to line and the Nonslip Mono Loop knot or the Orvis Knot for tippet to fly. He also includes a lot of caveats that are worth a read and I need to re-read.