Why 25 to 30 pound test?

[WarrenP]

Been reading a lot on how different fly fisherman rig a loop on the end of their fly lines to have a loop to attach a leader to and most are using a short piece of mono which they nail-knot to the end of their fly line and a Surgeons loop in the end of the mono for attaching a leader by loop-to-loop. I am trying to understand why most are using mono in the 25-30 pound test for this short connection. If you are saltwater fishing I can understand, but, for trout fishing, this pound test seems like over kill. Is there a reason for using this strong of mono or can a person use 12 to 15 pound test?

Just interested in the reason because I am not the "sharpest tool in the tool shed", so, educate me please!

[pszy22]

Been reading a lot on how different fly fisherman rig a loop on the end of their fly lines to have a loop to attach a leader to and most are using a short piece of mono which they nail-knot to the end of their fly line and a Surgeons loop in the end of the mono for attaching a leader by loop-to-loop. I am trying to understand why most are using mono in the 25-30 pound test for this short connection. If you are saltwater fishing I can understand, but, for trout fishing, this pound test seems like over kill. Is there a reason for using this strong of mono or can a person use 12 to 15 pound test?

Just interested in the reason because I am not the "sharpest tool in the tool shed", so, educate me please!

The pound test of this connector isn't so important, what is important is the stiffness of the material. You need to have sufficient stiffness to transmit the energy from the fly line to the leader. If that connection is not sufficient to adequately transmit the energy, you are going to have a hard time getting your leader to turn over.

One thing to remember, the fly line itself uses it's mass to store and transfer energy, mono has very little mass, so it relies on it's stiffness to store and transmit energy. That's why you need a rather stiff connection to try to capture as much of that fly line energy as possible.

Hope that makes sense,

[Gigmaster]

When fishing dry flies, you need to have the line 'turn over' and lay out straight, and land lightly on the water. A 25-30 lb. mono leader butt is stiff, and aids in the process, sort of like an extra little rod at the end of the fly line. Without this, it would be harder to lay a 10'-12' leader out straight, and gentle.

Just my opinion.

[WarrenP]

Thanks for the education. It all makes sense. As stiff as 25/30 pound test mono is, I bet tying the nail-knot is fun! Would you use this for say a 4wt or 3wt? What length should the mono be for the best turn-over transition? On the nail-knot, how many wraps do you use for the nail-knot? I am thinking about installing one on one of my fly rods just to see what difference it makes and if I am happy with it, may change all my fly rod lines. The only reason for doing this is because it is something others are using and I am not and maybe I am missing something and there is only one way to find out and that is try it. I like to think that I do not "live in a box" and am not opposed to trying something different.

Thanks,

[Bamboozle]

Leave it to me to screw up a one answer parade BUT...

If stiffness is the reason behind the choice of 25lb test; why do my very limp Sci Angler Trout fly lines with a very limp built in loop; cast a furled or other looped end leader just fine? The same goes for those folks that create a loop in the end of their fly-line by doubling over and securing it with tying thread.

I was always told it's more about the diameter than the stiffness although don't ask me why. The deal was to use something that is close to the diameter of the end of your fly line.

If I HAD to add a mono loop to the end my fly line I would add something heavy just for durability's sake so I wouldn't have to worry about it breaking, fraying or just generally getting beat all to heck.

In other words so I wouldn't have to do it more than once!

[ducksterman]

Consider using the butt end of a used leader....works just fine
.

[Gigmaster]

I don't use nail knots. I use either a superglue, or epoxy knot. Thread a large needle with the end of your leader butt. You poke a hole in the middle of your fly line for about 1", then bring it out the side (use a heavy leather needle)with the mono butt. Then, pull the mono from the needle, coat the end of the mono with epoxy and pull it back into the line. Allow it to dry, and your done.

Thanks for the education. It all makes sense. As stiff as 25/30 pound test mono is, I bet tying the nail-knot is fun! Would you use this for say a 4wt or 3wt? What length should the mono be for the best turn-over transition? On the nail-knot, how many wraps do you use for the nail-knot? I am thinking about installing one on one of my fly rods just to see what difference it makes and if I am happy with it, may change all my fly rod lines. The only reason for doing this is because it is something others are using and I am not and maybe I am missing something and there is only one way to find out and that is try it. I like to think that I do not "live in a box" and am not opposed to trying something different.

Thanks,

[Buddy Sanders]

Warren,

I've done this to several of my fly lines. All the ones without loops built in or that I've placed those braided leader loops on. I do use another system on all my sinking lines, though.

While I'll not comment on the 'stiffness' issue, the reason for me to use a heavy mono has to do with durability. I have a few spools of 'butt section' stuff that I use for this, and it's VERY thick and probably very strong (have no idea what the 'test' is).

As Ducksterman mentioned, you don't want this to break or fail for the life of the line. The 'test' of the stuff is irrelevant, the thicker mono will absorb more abuse and last longer. It also won't cut into whatever you loop to it.

I always want the loop on the fly line to be larger than the butt section of the leader I'm using.

As far as 'tying issues' with the heavy stuff, I've not had troubles with it, quite the reverse. Tying a nail knot in .060 mono is easier than tying a blood knot in 6X...you can SEE the heavy mono....

I use 4 to 6 turns on the nail knot, and I use the heaviest I have regardless of the fly line weight.

Buddy

[pszy22]

Leave it to me to screw up a one answer parade BUT...

If stiffness is the reason behind the choice of 25lb test; why do my very limp Sci Angler Trout fly lines with a very limp built in loop; cast a furled or other looped end leader just fine? The same goes for those folks that create a loop in the end of their fly-line by doubling over and securing it with tying thread.

I was always told it's more about the diameter than the stiffness although don't ask me why. The deal was to use something that is close to the diameter of the end of your fly line.

If I HAD to add a mono loop to the end my fly line I would add something heavy just for durability's sake so I wouldn't have to worry about it breaking, fraying or just generally getting beat all to heck.

In other words so I wouldn't have to do it more than once!

If you already have a loop in the end of your flyline, there is no need to add and additional mono loop.

Regarding your limp loop fly line question, again, it gets back to the fact that a flyline relies on mass to transfer energy, it doesn't have to be stiff. Mono has very little weight (i.e. mass), therefore in order to transfer energy it has to rely on being stiff, i.e. it works like a bow or fly rod to load and transfer energy.

A furled leader works like a fly line, it is supple but has a fairly large diameter, much thicker than straight mono. That's a key point to why furled leaders cast well, but are able to control drag because they can better conform to the current.

[sagefisher]

I have always used a heavy mono for my connection. I tie it onto the line with a Tie-Fast Knot Tying Tool, works like a champ. It will stay put for many years. For saltwater salmon fishing, I tie two nail knots onto the fly line by leaving 8 to 10 inches of mono on the tag end, then I use the Tie-Fast Knot Tying Tool to tie the second knot. Clip it close and apply some Loon UV Knot Sense and you have a nice smooth connection.

Also, yes, you need the thickness/stiffness to transfer the power of the cast onto the leader. You can try it out sometime, tie a connection using a really thin and limp mono and watch how the leader fails to flow properly to present the fly. That weak connection just will not allow the power to go on down the leader.

Larry ---sagefisher---