Questions for true wet fly fishermen...

[WarrenP]

Today, in my part of Tennessee, the air temperature is good for fly fishing, but, with all the rain, that we needed, the rivers are "blown out" for wading. Although, I do have a spot on the Elk that I can fish from the bank when they are generating and may go there today. Been reading a lot from Dave Hughes' book, Wet Flies-Tying and Fishing Soft-Hackles, Winged and Wingless Wets and Fuzzy Nymphs which I highly recommend to anyone who is wanting to get into tying and fishing wet flies. In my opinion, this book gives you what you need to get started tying and fishing these flies without getting too deep into the subject. Nothing I dislike more than reading a book and having to get the dictionary out to figure out the "big" words which I feel were thrown in to "impress" someone. After reading on the ways to tie and fish these flies, which are explained and illustrated very well, I have some questions for experienced wet fly fishermen only. I am not interested in opinions or "what I would do in this situation" responses. I need input from true wet fly fishermen in order to answer some of the questions in my head. So, here are some of the questions I have:

Dave recommends a rod in the 8.6" to 9' foot length for most wet fly/softhackle fishing. He also recommends a rod that is on the "soft side of fast". My favorite rods to use are all Sages and are the XP's. I have an 8' 3wt and an 8.6" 4wt and 5wt. I really enjoy using these rods and need to know if they are too fast and if they are, what do you use for your wet fly/softhackle fishing. Please do not give me descriptions as medium fast or medium because different manufacturers of rods label their rods different and the actions will not be the same. I want to know the brand and model you are using that works best for you. From that, I can maybe come up with a rod that would be better suited then my XP's if you feel the XP's are too fast. If you feel the XP's are OK, than I can carry on from there. He does state that bamboo is great and I do own one, but, he also states that if the fishing conditions change from wet flies, he likes having a graphite rod instead so that he can switch to nymphs and other styles of flies that would not work as well on his bamboo. He uses the bamboo mainly on small spring creeks. In my area, I have no small spring creeks for trout and do have 2 medium size rivers.

He also recommends that the fly line be double taper rather than weight forward. Do you agree and is this what you use and feel would be best?

Thanks for the input and I hope you understand what I am trying to accomplish here. I enjoy my wet fly fishing and am trying to see if my equipment is keeping me from getting the full enjoyment and is it restricting my flies from performing at their best.

Thanks

[rons81]

I can't answer them, still studying like you. I have Sylvester Nemes' 3 books Dave Hughes book and Allen Mc Gee's book. A lot of information is slowly sinking in.
I'll be interested in the replies you get.

By the way I was told yesterday that the TVA is not releasing a lot of this rain water out of Dale Hollow Lake. This because they have to keep Wolf Creek and Center Hill Low. ( For repairs )

Was thinking of going to the Obey tomorrow. I'll try some of the soft hackles, Flymphs. wingless wets and fuzzy nymphs I've been tying

[rainbowchaser]

hello warren
I believe the main reason Hughes gives for using a slower action rod is that it makes it a little easier to cast with a slightly open loop when using more than one fly. That is one reason why I built my favorite trout rods on slower blanks. If you are an experienced caster you know how to accomplish this with your faster rods. It just calls for a little more attention to your casting until you get used to it. Your going to tangle occasionally anyway. I've always used double taper lines but can't wee what difference a weight forward would make in most cases. The action on the fly is imparted by the current dragging the fly line and on a long cast where some of the running line is on the water it might make a difference but I seldom use long casts for wet fly fishing anyway. I do often bring the fly part way back and then roll cast to keep the fly wet and minimize time out of the water. At the distances I usually use wet flies you could do this just fine with weight forward line but if you are restricted to fishing from the bank and need more distance at times the double taper may roll cast easier.

[Ron Eagle Elk]

Rainbowchaser pretty much nailed it. My 8'6" Sage 5 wgt SLT works fine for casting multiple fly rigs witih very little tangle, as do my 4 and 6 wgt boo rods.

I use a WF line on the Sage and DT on the boo rods, neither affects my fishing that much, except roll casting, as Rainbowchaser said, is a bit easier with the DT lines.

If you fishing a single fly you should have no problem with your faster rods and WF lines.

[Big Bad Wulff]

Lots of weight.

[Slate_Drake_9]

Please do not give me descriptions as medium fast or medium because different manufacturers of rods label their rods different and the actions will not be the same. I want to know the brand and model you are using that works best for you.
Thanks

I think your logic is backwards here. Medium is medium and slow is slow, no matter who makes the rod. The problem is when manufacturer A says their rod is slow and manufacturer B says their rod is slow and in reality, they are both probably medium at best because they are comparing them to their other rods that all feel like shovel handles. That rant over.

Most times casts of wet flies are roll casted, not overhand casted to keep them from getting tangled. Some schools of thought also suggest (or outright say) that roll casting keeps the flies wet and overhand casting dries them out, hence another reason to roll cast them if you believe that.

Because roll casting is the "traditional and accepted" method to fish them, equipment should favor fishing this style. Longer rods roll cast better than shorter rods, so the longer the better. Also, mending is easier with a longer rod than a shorter rod, which can be really important in getting the proper drift when using wets, so longer is better here too. The slower the rod, the easier for most anglers to roll cast, so slower is better (there are some schools of thought about slow rods not drying flies out too). Double taper lines roll cast better at longer distances than do weight forward lines, but you will not notice this until you cast past the head.

All that said, I've never read the books you are talking about. I do fish wets often and suggest that you get a rod and line combo that you can use to cast you fly or flies to the fish you are targeting (I almost always roll cast wets, but there are situations that require an overhand cast). Most of the rods I fish are considered slow by most standards. I don't change rod action based on fly type. For larger streams/rivers I fish an Orvis "Performer" (9' 6 weight) an Orvis "Trout" (8' 6 weight), a Montague Redwing (9' 6 weight) and a Cabelas Traditional 11' 6 weight (really big waters or water with lots of complex currents).

For medium to small streams/rivers I fish the rest of the Orvis superfine series of graphite rods interchangably (all slow to medium slow), several St. Croix rods (medium to medium fast) and a few cane rods. (I shared this just because you wanted specifics)

There are many times I find a rod of 7-7.5 feet long the best for swinging wets.

I recommend a sink tip line or the sinking poly leaders to get the fly down in the faster waters.

[WarrenP]

Thanks for the replies I have received so far. They have been very helpful. When I started this trip with a fly rod about 14 or so years ago, I said I would never be interested in the small flies, but, things are changing! I have been "playing" with wet flies, softhackles and flymphs for a little over a year and really enjoy them. No, I am not tying size 18/20 yet. I use 14's and 16's for now. From the responses I have received so far, I think my Sage XP's in 3wt and 4wt will work for me. I have always used WF line and may try some DT on the 3wt and the 4wt. I have tried fishing multiple flies and just do not like it for some unknown reason. I seem to catch more with one fly and have had less strikes with more than one fly on the line. It may just be a confidence thing. I have also tried strike indicators and just do not like them either. I came to the fly fishing sport after 30+ years of tournament bass fishing and the tournaments just took the fun out of my fishing. I guess just too many jet boats, water skiers, joy riders and just too crowded on the water and I lost the "fun" in my fishing. I picked up a fly rod and just went to the rivers and have never looked back. I really enjoy the fly rod and all it has given me. My joy in fishing has returned. I think bringing the "line watching" and the sensitive feel from bass fishing to fly fishing is what makes me the nymph/bugger/streamer and now wet fly fisherman that I am. Fly fishing is a "one on one" thing with me and when I am watching my fly line, I am not aware of much of anything that is going on around me. I do enjoy catching trout and do catch my share.

I thank all that have responded to my questions and will take what I have learned and read to the water and continue with this fantastic sport! It has been a great ride for the last 14 years and I know the ride is just going to get better!

Oh, I never made it to the river today. The weatherman said it was going to be sunny and 42 degrees today and so far (it is 4pm) I have yet to see the sun, the temperature has never left 31 degrees and we have a North wind at around 15mph and there have been some snow flurries in the air!

Thanks, everyone...you are all great! Now back to tying and reading more....

[DaveP63]

I use and have used WF and DT 5 and WF 6 weight lines. 5 and 6 weight rods, both medium and faster and have noticed very little difference in castability. The only issue I've every run into is getting too long a leader/tippett (medium flex rod) while using a single fly and having in not want to turn over properly. If you are comfortable with your XPs, go for it!

[flybugpa]

as DaveP63 said in his post, i belive the most trouble you will have is with leaders, by that i mean their length, too long of a leader can get you in trouble. the George Harvey leader is the one i use for wet flys , also Joe Humphries has some leader formulas for wets and can be found in Allan Mcgees book tying and fishing soft hackled nymphs. I am using a tip flex T-3 with Harvey leader, and have not had any problems to speak of

[WarrenP]

What I use for leaders now are furled leaders, that I make myself, made from fluorocarbon and they are either 9' or 5'8" and they both turn over very well. To them I usually add a 6' foot tippet of either 4 or 6 pound strength. Sometimes I will add a 4lb tippet to the end of the 6lb tippet and have had no problems with turn over, so, I will experiment from there. Tom Roberts (doublewide on FAOL) came over to my house today and dropped off a DVD entitled, "Wet Fly Ways with Davy Wotton and it was very interesting. He shows a 3-fly set up and he uses a 10 or 11 foot rod. I think I will stick with my Sage XP's for now and continue to experiment with them.

Well, today was very productive. Got some great input from FAOL members, a great DVD to watch plus I got several wet/softhackle flies tied up. Now if only the weather and work schedule will cooperate......

Thanks, everyone