the recent introduction of short, specialty rods..

[Jim Sentell]

Don't know about these new specialty rods that meet B.A.S.S. standards; and, why would you want to? They're just a fly fishing version of the standard re-bar used to rip the fishes lips out in the hook-set....

Anyway, the advantage and use of shorter rods is well documented by a couple of people that know what they're talking about;

Quote; Joan Wulff and Mel Krieger....

"The advantages of short rods repeated in dozens of angling texts ? more portability when hiking through brush and easier false casting under overhanging branches?are valid, but they are not nearly as important as the accuracy afforded by moving the path of the rod tip closer to the caster's line of sight."

http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/t..._accuracy.aspx


Try it, you'll like it.

Jim

[deathb4disco]

Some interesting comments here:

http://fieldandstream.blogs.com/flyt...fly-rod-w.html

[tailingloop]

I do a lot of bluegill and bass fishing in Southern California as well as a lot of saltwater fishing around kelp beds, jetties, and boiler rocks. I'm not much interested in rules for bass tourneys.

I have always been interested in heavier but shorter rods for some situations because they are better fish fighting tools (think in terms of 3rd class levers, the angler is disadvantaged and a shorter rod lessens that disadvantage) and because shorter rods are easier to stop and that makes it easier to consistently cast very tight loops into very tight places. After extensive time fishing from float tubes I have also developed a preference for shorter rods when fishing from tubes because it can be easier to bring fish to hand. I don't buy into the longer rod concept for fishing from a tube because if your backcast hits the water it is because your threw your backcast down. Same cast with a longer rod and the line still goes down. I also fish some waters from a tube or wading that are very congested with brush, sticks and such where a shorter rod is easier to manage when fighting a nice fish.

A couple of years ago I went to 7.5' 6wt St. Croix and an old 7'9" Sage Youth Rod for my bass and bluegill fishing from a tube. Both great rods. Sage does not currently have a similar rod but he St. Croix 7.5' 6wt is in their lineup. I also use a Redington Crosswater 8' 5/6 wt. The shorter length was easier in the thick cover but the rods lack the backbone to quickly control 1-2lb bluegill and bigger bass in thick cover without getting the leader, and sometimes the flyline wrapped on stuff. Its not that these fish couldn't be landed with 2,3 or 4wt rods, it is just that in thick cover they were too soft to quickly get the fish's head moving towards the angler. With 9 footers I was sometimes getting my rod tip pulled into or around sticks. I also wanted a shorter rod for levering calico bass out of kelp in close range battles. So I started looking for heavier wt shorter rods. Redington used to sell a 7.5' 9wt but I couldn't find a used one. Bass Pro had some 8' or so rods in 7 to 10wt but there was no Bass Pro locally to check them out.

When I saw the new Sage Bass rods I though this might be exactly what I was looking for. I knew some people that were involved with testing the prototypes and their feedback was very positive.


I initially purchased the Sage Largemouth model for heavier bass work and saltwater. Some very experienced anglers told me that this would fish comparable to an 8 or 9wt rod desipite the 330gr line. In actual usage I find this to be true - the rod fishes like an 8. I have a Sage 1190-3 RPLXi and there is no comparison. The RPLXi 11wt is much heavier casting and fishing, and has much more power in the butt section than the Sage Largemouth rod, which feels lighter in the hand to me than my Sage RPLX, Sage FLi, and Redington Saltwater 8wt rods. Strength in the butt section is comparable to the RPLX, maybe a bit stronger but less than my 9wt RPLX, and somewhat stronger than the FLi. So I just don't see any way to really equate the Sage Largemouth rod to an 11wt, or my 10wt rods for that matter and I would never use it in a situation where I would employ my 11 or 10wt rods. The Sage Largemouth rod also performs well for me with an 8wt or 9wt WF floating line as well as 300gr sinking lines which I have tried just for the sake of testing. But with the 330gr line that it comes with, it is very effective at casting big bugs. That 330gr line also makes all of my 8 and 9wt rods (9 total) more effective at casting big bugs too - as you might expect. I was not surprised by this because I often use 10wt lines on my 8wt rods for casting big bugs and streamers.

Curiously, I also discovered that these shorter rods are also great for fishing in the wind since it is a bit easier to stop them and thus throw tighter loops. I came upon this revelation one day of a week long trip that was blown out by 25mph winds gusting to 40. A couple of my buddies bet some beer that I couldn't cast into that wind. I rigged up the Largemouth rod with a hair bug and 4ft leader, went out on the dock by the cabin, and was able to drive accurate 50ft casts into the wind and occasionally out another 20ft. They bought the beer.

Now after a bit year of experience with the rod, it has become a favorite for local saltwater topwater for kelp bass as well as smaller pelagics and for casting larger topwater bass bugs or large streamers (6 to 8") for near surface work. The shorter length has helped as anticipated for levering fish away from kelp or through weeds or other aquatic plants and off rock piles. It is an excellent complement to the 9ft 8 and 9wt rods that I use for bass and inshore saltwater fishing most of the time. I find it a joy to cast all day and have no problem making repeated long casts in open water. I also found this rod slightly more comfortable to cast all day in an ocean swell than a longer rod. I just won a Sage Smallmouth model in a raffle and am excited to have that tool too. By the way, just as I noted the Largemouth is not comparable my my 11wt, the Smallmouth does not compare to any of my 9 or 10wt rods in how it fishes - it compares better to my 7 and 8wt rods.

I have examined the Sage Bluegill model in the shop and think it perfect for heavy bluegill and lighter bass work. However, I am very keen on examining examples of the Redington Predator and Ross Worldwide Flystik series rods in the 6wt models because I think they would be excellent big panfish and light bass rods. If they have more backbone than the St. Croix and Sage Youth rods that I mentioned earlier then they will be just what I am looking for, and at a better pricepoint than the Sage Bluegill.

While I like the Sage rods, I think the naming is unfortunate and confusing to some people, but again they are just names. But I'm not sure what would be better to call them. You can't think of them as 11wts or 10 wts or whatever because they just don't stack up against other rods labeled as such. I do know they are excellent packages - a rod/line system that doesn't necessarily fit conventional thinking. Also, though the rod and line are sold as a package, I believe both are great products in their on right. The 330gr line seems to turn over big bugs better than the 10 and 11 wt floaters that I have, regardless of which rod I line it with, and like I said, it works well with 8 or 9wt rods.

So I am very enthusiastic about these shorter, heavier wt rods, whether they have a Sage, Redington, Ross Worldwide, G. Loomis, or Scott label on them. And I shouldn't forget the new TFO Mini-Magnum.

Now despite my enthusiasm, I still consider the shorter rods niche products that are great tools for many situations but certainly not all. If I am fishing from a boat, I may have my two Sage Bass rods rigged and ready to go, but I will probably have two to four 9 footers also rigged and ready to go in the boat.

A friend working a place for short, stout rods

[LigonierA1]

I've been sitting back over the past week and watching this unfold as I suspected there would be a bit of controversey. Most respondants don't seem to have the first hand experience I asked about but do have strong opinions on the rods/market. I suspected this would be the case. That in and of itself is an interesting characteristic of this market segment.

JC, thanks for the hands on feedback. I can only imagine what it's like to stand there with Jerry and go through the paces at the casting pond.

And tailingloop, that was a great read. Thanks for the considerable effort and dialogue you put into that response. You mentioned a few companies/rods that I wasn't familiar with that are persuing the category and that builds the case that this market segment is enjoying some success. Whether it has legs or not, time will tell.

Overall, the general concept makes alot of sense to me. I'll argue that it's *not* about short rods as much as it is short rods designed to throw big heads and big flies. Maybe it's been done previously on the mass market but no one is telling me about it and how it faired. Historical perspective would be interesting, but no one mentioned any.

My own current warmwater rods are a Sage TXL 3wt for bluegills (and most of my dry fly trout fishing) a medium actioned 9' 6wt for creek smallies and pond lmb, and a 9' 8wt for big river and big reservoir fishing. This concept of short stiff rods hammering out shooting heads is intriguing.

That F&S Fly Blog was an excellent read, thanks for the link.

[tailingloop]

My fly fishing history only goes back about 15 years. I first started thinking about uses for short medium to heavy wt rods about 10 years ago. At that time, the only one I could find on the market was a 7.5ft 9wt that was in Redington's Saltwater series line up. I believe they marketed it as a rod for fishing mangroves for snook and baby tarpon. It was in their line up for several years but was dropped maybe 6 or 7 years ago. I never saw one here on the west coast.

A few years ago, maybe five, Bass Pro Shops introduced their Gold Cup Extreme rods which where three piece models ranging from about 7'9" to 8'3" (I might be off by an inch or two) and 7 to 10 wt. They were marketed towards the bass and mangrove angler or others with a need for close in work with strong fish. This series was discontinued last year. I guess they weren't successful enough to keep them in the line up, but then Bass Pro isn't the first place most anglers go looking for fly tackle. Those were the only shorter production medium wt flyrods that I was aware of. There was some number of anglers such as Buddy Sanders who may their own short rods from spinning or casting blanks with varying degrees of success.

When this new wave of rods came on the market, I jumped because they were the answer to a problem I had. Not really a serious problem; I was catching fish with the gear I had. But they were perfect for some situations that I encounter frequently and added to the fun. In my opinion, the best gear for a task is the gear that makes that task the most enjoyable for me and the two Sage bass rods that I have do just that. I expect to add two more rods in the 6wt class. My Sage 379-3 LL and St Croix 7023 Imperial are my favorite panfish rods, but on several of my home waters they just doesn't cut it.

How popular these rods are remains to be seen. The local shops that I frequent tend to move them quickly and they have applications beyond the typical bass and panfish scenarios so their appeal is wider than some people believe. Sage, of course was aware of this because their rods were tested in saltwater environments as well as fresh before their release.

[BobC]

I like the shorter rods for kayak fishing. Guess it's all a matter of opinion.

I like the shorter flyrods as well - they just seem to balance and work better for me, but I was leaning towards a 9 for the kayak because I'm so low to the water, and I'm thinking it would be better for nymph and heavy fly casting. I'll test some before I buy. I would like to make it up to the FF show in Somerset NJ this year - there is normally a number of opportunities to test cast rods.

[thezugbug]

I have the Sage SM Bass rod, but almost didn't. I decided to reserve judgment until I'd cast the Sage bass rods and when I finally did, I loved the way the SM bass rod performed. (or I should say, the way it cast) Unlike every other fly rod I own, this is the first time I've bought a rod w/o a specific application in mind. In any given year, I fish everything from 6" brook trout in eastern streams to big bull trout in Western Canada...along with a host of predatory warm water fishies~there was bound to be a reason to "need" a new rod! Anyhow, I would say the rod would be overkill if you were in a spot where you're most likely to be hooking 3/4-2lb. bass, but overkill as in "power required to land" these fish. A rod with a little with a little extra muscle actually reduces angler fatigue if you plan on fishing a large variety of fly sizes in even a light wind~IMHO.

So, in reading all of these posts, I get the sense that most of the comments speak to the way the anglers approach bass fishing, and so they should. Me? Well, even when I'm bass fishing, I'm almost as likely to hook a pike, musky or walleye so I tend to fish large flies/heavy leaders and just hold my breath when I start to strip it in. A 3wt. ANYTHING would probably get destroyed in short order, assuming you could even pitch a big fly into the wind with one. I've never used anything lighter than a 5wt. for bass. Even when I'm fishing for perch/crappie/sunfish, I use a 4wt.

My thoughts are scattered as I'm typing here, but I should take the opportunity to ask those who have these rods; What do you think of the line? It feels like a stiff/slippery shooting head to me, but I recently tried this rod for Great Lakes steelhead and wasn't impressed with it's sub-zero performance. Yes, I know it says "Bass" right on the side, but I've never seen a fly line that disliked cold weather as much as this one.

Cheers,
TZB

[tailingloop]

Where I fish, cold is air and water temps of 60 deg F. So the Sage Bass lines work very well here and in the desert waters like the Lower Colorado river that I fish. The lines perform well for me at those 60 deg temps where my tropical lines remain stiff and coiled unless stretched every so often. The Sage lines seem to behave very similar to my other warmwater lines, so I would expect them to be less than ideal in the cold conditions you describe where a line formulated for cold water, like the Rio Coldwater Clouser Taper might be a better option.

[RG/AR]

Here's an angle on short rods that I've never seen mentioned in print that should be of interest to all you tubers and 'yakers, also those whose backcast room may be limited. With a short rod, it's much, much easier to keep your backcast up. This may actually give you greater distance on your forward cast with less effort.

[Jim Hatch]

It's been my experience over the years fishing some of the cypress swamps bordering
the north shore of the Santee Cooper Lakes of South Carolina, that short fly rods can
and do serve a very useful purpose. Some waters are just too darned tight to be
fished any other way except for a short flyrod, short spinning rod, or dynomite.*G*

I find the short rods to be a real treat in the right waters. I have a 6' 2 piece cane for
4 weight, a 6' 2 pc graphite Diamondback in 3 weight, and a 5 foot Beaver Meadows 2 weight rod
by JP Ross. I have longer/heavier rods, but danged if I don't prefer to fish these little
guys the lions share of the time. I have no trouble spotting my flys where I want them
or getting hooksets. Just my personal preference.*G* Warm regards, Jim