I have kind of a technical question

[Skip48]

I tie jigs and can use heavy thread like 210 denier and can really put some pressure when tying with it. I don't have to worry about it breaking usually when tying something in and I know it will hold well.

I really don't know or understand though how well wraps hold something when using 6/0 and smaller. Is it the number of wraps or the tightness that holds the stuff. How can I tell how much is enough to know it's not coming apart? Like using 14/0 I really don't know or never had anyone tell me what it takes and how I can tell it's good enough.

Really I started pretty much with this site to learn what I needed to know for tying jigs by following the fly tying info here and what ever I taught my self from reading and just trying things. like I said I am in the sticks so no fly shop around here for help with anything.

So anyone that has info that can help me I sure would appreciate help.

[JeffHamm]

Hi Skip,

One is typically tying smaller flies when using smaller thread. That means less material needs to be lashed to the hook. Because of the reduced bulk, the thread doesn't need to be pulled as hard to hold as well - the material acts as a cushion so the more of the harder you have to tie it down. In most cases, 3 good strong wraps will hold the material to the hook. Some materials (squirrel tail wings for example) can be quite slippery though, so after tying them on to the hook and trimming the waste, you should put some cement on the ends before tying the head.

Anyway, the best way to learn how much pressure you can use is to tie on your thread to the hook, then pull down, release, pull down a bit harder, etc, until it breaks. Do this breaking test half a dozen to a dozen times in order to develope a feel for how much pressure you can use.

- Jeff

[modocdan]

Hey there Skip.....
Jeff said it well, and I pretty much agree...the only way to really know how tight you can go with any given thread is to break it a few times while actually tying. I often use cement as insurance also. However, you need to know, Zap A Gap, and super glues are very hard when they dry, and can cause many types of hair to break off right where they are glued on. Watch out for that...........................ModocDan

[WarrenP]

Not real sure what you are after, but, if it is to scale down on the diameter of the thread that you are using, you could try using Kevlar tying thread. It is very strong but will not build up due to the smaller diameter. Just a thought...

[crazy4oldcars]

Skip
As stated, smaller flies means less material and lower denier thread.
Use the same number of wraps that you would for the larger flies, since the thread won't bulk up as much.
It will take a bit of practice to get the tension of the thread down. I still break off 8/0 and 70D on a regular basis. As long as nothing comes unwrapped, I just re-attach the thread and continue.

Kirk

[Ron Eagle Elk]

Don't know how true it is, but I was taught that you should be tying just under the breaking strength of your thread, no matter what size it is. It's the tightness of the wraps that holds materials in place. Two or three good tight wraps will hold material better than 14 loose wraps.

[Normand]

i think its all based on tying experience. i tie with 8/0 thread 95% of the time and rarely break it.

it doesnt take 30 wraps of thread to tie on a tail or finish a head.

[peregrines]

Skip

14/0 is really thin. I've never used it, but I don't expect to win any tying contests.

Other's probably do things differently, but for what it's worth, I use:

12/0 only on (most) dries size 20 and smaller.

8/0 for dries 14-18 and some 20's (like comparaduns or elk hair caddis with deer/elk hair wings where I want to apply more thread torque than 8/0), soft hackle wets (with floss bodies for thin body) 16-18 and nymphs 18

6/0 for dries 12 and up, dubbed body wets 18 and up, nymphs 16 and up, FW streamers (except for clousers), spun deer on small-medium muddlers 12-4 and small saltwater stuff size 2 -6.

Flat Waxed Nylon for all clousers size 2 and larger, and saltwater stuff 2- 6/0, including spun deer hair size 2 and larger. i don't tie much FW bass stuff, but I'd probably use 3/0 thread instead of flat waxed if I did to bind down materials.

Kevlar, i don't like working with it cuz it can cut thru materials (use cheapo scissors to cut it so you don't dull your good ones if you use it), but sometimes use it for spinning deer hair on SW stuff 1/0 and larger.

I use 8/0 and 12/0 only for keeping weight down on dries and being able to get a decent head and neater fly on small stuff.

For jigs, tails on poppers etc you'd want stuff that was strong enough to hold some decent pressure, but not so thin that it cut through stuff like marabou. Maybe 6/0 or 3/0 would work for crappie size stuff and for bigger bass type stuff 3/0? If you're worried about bulk, you could try spinning the bobbin to get flatter thread.

Hope this helps.

peregrines

[Fatman]

Skip I tie Crappie jigs all the time and I use 6/0 or 8/0 for most of my tying and never had a problem. JeffHamm is right on with the pulling method for seeing how much pressure before you break your thread, but make sure you try it with different materials as all are different.

In some instance's I'll use Kevlar but it bulks up really quick. When I finally use it up I'll probably switch to 3/0 for heavy tie's or I may try some of the GSP (I think that's what it's called) thread, as several folks here said it's really strong and what they use for spinning deer hair.

There's a good forum for tying crappie jigs at http://www.crappie.com/crappie/index.php You can pick up some really good patterns but I'll tell you alot of the trout patterns tied on a jig will get you all the gills and crappie you could want.

Good Luck

Fatman

[Ken Y]

Keep in mind that natural materials don't break so easily, but some synthetics such as sili legs can break if you put too much pressure on them. what I will do is to "get the feel" of the thread by tying some flies for a while. hope you catch many good fish and tye good flies.