capes vs saddles?

[Clay]

I'm still a very new fly tier. I want to start tying some dry flies. Bluntly I'm confused on what materials I really need. I see saddles for sale and then I see capes. If all things are equal, both of equal quality, where does one use a cape vs using a saddle? If there is a good resource that you can point me to about which materials to use for which application, I would be appreciative.

Rick

[fishbum]

Rick

If you want a lot of different sizes of hackle then get a cape, however, if you want to tie a lot of flies on only a couple sizes then get a saddle. Saddle= lots of hackle in a very narrow range of sizes, Cape = lot of different sizes but not so much of it.

Hope this helps.

fishbum

[hap]

Denny at ConRanch can give you plenty of details on any and all questions you might have about hackles... He also sells some great stuff.

In general you should buy capes because they are the only source of a full range of sizes. Saddles give you specific mid-range size hackles and they can be easier to tie with due to their length, but capes trump with variety.

I always start on this page http://conranch.com/specials.html because I like full skins ever since I bought my first from Denny a couple years ago. I have three of them now and really like all the variety in a single skin. And this is just a confusing issue on top of what you really asked...

If I were starting over the order and items I would buy would be; a #2 or better Grizzly cape, a furnace cape, a golden badger cape, a dun saddle... After those you can start picking and choosing as your understanding grows.

Grizzly is most commonly used, followed by brown (furnace). Those are automatic, IMO. The golden badger is buggy as can be and will work for any ginger, cream or other similar colors. Dun is the farthest from the first three colors and will do for black and duns. After the disease is fully rooted you will need no help in spending every last dime...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34...f3/hackles.jpg
art

[DG]

Back before I gave up on dry fly hackle and went almost exclusively to CDC flies, I realized that the VAST majority of the hackled dry flies I was using were 14s and 16s. So I used saddles. If you tie a wide variety of sizes, the necks give you that, but if you tie a whole lotta one size, I would suggest saddles. And you can get a BUNCH of flies out of a decent saddle. I have a cree Metz I got ten years ago that has tied several hundred flies and is still half there.

And no I am not giving it to anyone.

Dennis

[troutgeek]

Clay, along with the excellent suggestions already mentioned, other differences between saddles and capes are -- capes are great for quills and tips (wings). Another dilemma -- a nice saddle is hard to beat. I find the evenness superior to capes. So, what I do is start with a cape, and once I start getting low in certain sizes, I replace that size range with a saddle.

[TomRC]

I'm a newbie to tying as well and one piece of advice I would give is to buy high quality whether you buy capes or saddles. I would reccomend that you buy a 1/2 Cape of Brown and Grizzly to start. Saddles are apparently great but I like having a variety of sizes depending on what I am tying. A couple of weeks ago I bought a 1/2 Cape of Brown and Grizzly from Whiting and the difference is night and day compared to some of the "cheaper stuff" I started with. I guess this sport/hobby is like so many others in that you get what you pay for. I have heard nothing but good things about Conranch as well so I would put these two brands at the top of your list.

Tom

[Clay]

Thanks for all of the good info guys. I tend to be a cheap guy which translates into "I want to buy the quality stuff, but at the best price that I can find" which is much different than someone who wants to pay list price which is cheap for junk product. Given that and after reading a nice article on genetic hackle history here: http://flyfisherman.com/ftb/sshackle/index.html

I found a great deal on Herbert / Miner capes. I understand that they are a step down from the bronze level capes, but are so much better than even #1 rated capes of a few short years ago. I found a source for $25 each and if you buy 4 the 5th is free plus a hen saddle free too. So for a $100, I would get 5 capes and one hen saddle. Sounds like a good deal to me. Any comments about the Herbert / Miner Pro grade capes?

Rick

[RG/AR]

Rick,the Hebert/Miner is excellent quality, but larger sizes than some others. It was designed for Catskill dries, if I'm not mistaken.

[Clay]

Rick,the Hebert/Miner is excellent quality, but larger sizes than some others. It was designed for Catskill dries, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not familiar with Catskill dries, so does this mean that this cape would not be good as a base cape for someone just investing in feathers?

Rick

[Deezel]

Clay,

That sounds like a very good deal. H.M. capes, and saddles too, have excellent colors and quality of hackle. You may not get the tiniest of hackle sizes but you'll get plenty of hackle from 10 down to the mid 20's.

The H.M. genetic line originally had Darbee chicks involved. Thus the term 'Catskill' is in its history. At this point, with all the generations of chickens and genetic breeding that's been done, that piece of information is significant is historical terms but probably means very little in anything else.

Deezel