Are you ready?

[Smalliesam]

Smallie;
If, by chance, you can ever make it out here, to Oregon we DO, already, have one really fantastic "Smallie hole", called the "John Day River", which runs through the "dust hills" of Oregon, (north-central Oregon), and empties into the Columbia River.
Those that smallie fish it a lot, and know the river well,...........if you tell them "You had a great day, fishing and caught several Smallies weighing 2 to 5 pounds", they'll just smile, politely and mumble something to the effect of....... "oh, they're stilll running the RUNTS, in the upper reaches of the river huh?"
The best, I've ever done, on the "Day" is a 4lb 9oz. 2-3 lbs is normal.

I've read many things about the Day or the Columbia to that effect. I'll sure look you up if I ever get out that way. A recent issue of American Angler had 2 articles about smallies, one about fishing for them in an Eastern river the other about how they're despised and wished erradicated in some Western rivers. I imagine the Day and Columbia are well-known smallie flows and there's not a problem with the negative stance towards smallies. But, I wonder what the general attitude is concerning smallies in other Pacific coast rivers when there's a line where the trout and smallies mingle?

[flybinder]

Smallie;
In the very, early, '60's, there was a "movement afoot" throughout the entire state of Oregon to "Poison off and entirely eradicate, the full spectrum of ALL Spiny Ray Species of fresh water fish".
The "powers to be" at the time, were working under the self ego'ed assumption, that "Oregon's entire attraction to Tourists that fish, is based SOLELY on Oregon's Trout, Salmon and Steelhead, fishing opportunities. PERIOD. Perch, Crappie, Bass, Bluegill, ANY and ALL spiny rays were to be poisoned out of all of Oregon's, rivers, lakes and streams.
My father, coming from the Midwest, in 1957 and settling, here, in Oregon had already enjoyed some great fishing for HIS favorite sport fish, here......... the Large Mouth Bass and the Small Mouth Bass. To not make this post into "an early Oregon History"....... My dad and three other "Spiny Ray Advocates", got involved politically as well as forming "The Oregon Bass and Panfish Club", and during their efforts, turned around the "Gumby Mentality" and the Spiny Ray is still, alive and well, in our state!
However, Smallie, you've also heard correctly, Oregon as a WHOLE, sportsman wise, still look down their noses at the Spiny Ray species as a whole. Which, for me and other bass fly fishers is sort of neat, because it keeps the bass and panfish waters a LOT less crowded for us!

[SteveGibson]

Smallie,

If you ever get down to Florida around Sarasota, I'll be glad to treat you to a day of kayak fishing at no cost.

In return, I'd love to make a smallmouth trip with you.

I've caught a little bit of everything on fly rod, but never a smallmouth.

[Big Bad Wulff]

Flybinder. That sounds eerily like the fight we have to keep trails open in our Parks for all users, not just the "fashionable("politically-correct") ones".

[Smalliesam]

FB, Thank goodness for men like your Dad and his friends. It may not have been the right thing to do if panfish and black bass were stocked illegally. But, I don't see where it's right either to start killing them once they've existed in a river or stream. In instances where there's an indigenous species they're competing with and taking over, I can see increasing the creel limit or relocating to reduce those populations. But, I don't subscribe to the attitude of "just throw the damn bass up on the back and let 'em rot."

I also find the bass rivers less crowded and more to my liking for the same reasons you do. I'm thankful for the irony of losing my trout stream, but finding something I love even more. When I discovered the smallie fishery here, I was a part-time guide and just looking to get away from the summer crowds on the local trout streams. I had no idea how deep my addiction to the bronze warriors would become.


Steve, I'd be more than happy to trade trips if we can work it out.

[flybinder]

There's been MORE than one "convert", that have added smallies, (as well as, LMs) to their fishing larder, once they've tied into a Smallie on a light rod!!
And, thank you. Dad passed away a year ago at 89 and left behind the largest fishing club in the state, going strong.
Oregon Bass and Panfish, isn't a "fly fish only" type organization. It's an "all family" encouraged group, that gather for the love of fishing the Spiny Ray species, however they enjoy it.
Oregon's waiting, if you can make it out here,someday and the "guided fishing", is free for the asking! Now, I didn't say "The GUIDED CATCHING is free", Smallie, just the "where to go" and the "someone to go with", is the "free" part!!

[flyflingerandy]

Yeah, wish we had some stream smallies here locally, but I do have lake smallies here...just have NO idea how to catch them on the long rod...My guess would be sink tips around points and deep water edges, but...I am lost.

[Gnu Bee Flyer]

We have bass to 12 lbs in a lake just south of us 1/2 hour drive. I have no idea if they are LMB or SMB. I am going to give them a try this spring. I have seen the pictures of both largemouth and smallmouth bass so I would know how to tell them apart if I actually had one in my possession . I don't know much about them. Perhaps some of you can tell me if there is much if any difference in the catching of them. Do the SM fight better than the LM? Do they feed on different things, or are they almost completely the same in every respect. Which species grow the largest? etc etc.

[JohnScott]

...In instances where there's an indigenous species they're competing with and taking over, I can see increasing the creel limit or relocating to reduce those populations. But, I don't subscribe to the attitude of "just throw the damn bass up on the back and let 'em rot." ....

Smallie -

We have that kind of problem on the South Fork of the Snake - with rainbow trout. The South Fork was a cutthroat and brown trout fishery up until fairly recently, when the rainbows somehow got into the system and began taking it over. Other than just doing well on their own, they also interbreed with the cutts, producing the cuttbow. Between the competition with the cutts and the dilution of the species at spawning, the rainbows have become a serious problem. The browns may compete, but don't spawn at the same time, and the cutts can hold their own against the browns.

A couple years ago IDFG implemented a program to reverse the trend. Cutthroat are now catch and release only on the South Fork, and their is no limit on the bows and hybrids. In fact, throwing the bows up on the bank is encouraged. The bows may rot, but hopefully the eagles will find them before they do.

Personally, I have a hard time participating in this effort. Fortunately, the sections of the South Fork that I fish have very few bows, so I don't at all mind ignoring IDGF on this point. Most of the ones I release will probably end up as dinner for a big brown trout or an eagle or osprey anyway.

There is a real problem though - if the cutthroat population is reduced much below its recent low point, the endangered species act may be brought to play. That is something that could seriously affect fishing of any kind on the South Fork, which would be tough on the guys who like to fish there, but even more so on the people who make their living supporting the fishery - guides, fly shop owners, a couple drift boat companies, just to name the local businesses.

Its a difficult problem. Fortunately, for those who really like fishing for rainbows, we have the Henry's Fork of the Snake close by.

John

[Smalliesam]

I'm a firm believer in the saying that you can tie a SM and LM of the same size together at the tail and the SM will pull the LM all over the place. A river bass of either species will be better fighters than those found in impoundments. Both are ambush feeders and love cover. But, smallies are more likely to be in and around the eddies and pockets in the drops and rapids of a river. Smallies are especially fond of submerged rocks and boulder fields are some of my favorite places to fish. Look at the area upriver and behind me in that picture of me. Drops, boulders, pockets, ledges, etc. where there's a drop in elavation, the mountains are closer to the river and it meanders through them. They do like timber as well, but it's hard to fish on the fly successfully. I don't do as well in the slower runs, but the heads and Tailouts of the deeper holes are often productive, especially early and late.

Andy, I did some research and it seems that only the SE corner of KS has smallmouth. I found no information on rivers, only lakes. But, that may be a good thing. Could it be there's an unused resource there that you could have all to yourself? I don't know, but it may be worth checking out. I'd start by looking to the tribs of the lakes in question. Unless there's some georgraphical issue, many impoundments that contain smallies have a population upriver somewhere. Where I live, the river I fish has mostly a migratory population of smallies. They move upriver around the end of March to spawn and return to the lake downriver around the end of September. Ask over at riversmallies.com, you might be glad you did.