My thoughts exactlyOriginally Posted by Avalon
Tim
My thoughts exactly
Tim
Do you guys think maybe it is because all Scaddens new boats are bladderless? That costs in any of the pontoon models. I haven't seen the oars but I am betting it is a weight issue, and if Larry and Dave use them I am sure they work.
I am very interested in the Skykomish LP....13" diameter pontoons.
Besides, the price he prints on these and the price he actually sells them for are usually to different things.
Oars look way too short?
$1600.00 for a kickboat? And the model with the frame and platform is like $2,400.00?
You can be in a 2-man, true whitewater raft or cataraft for that much. Scadden has made some fine boats in the past, and still does, but some of the claims he makes about "technical whitewater" and certain boats being less prone to wind, etc, leaves me scratching my head and thinking yep, he has offficially flipped out.
Dear Tim,
Good!
I didn't want anybody to think I was the only sane person around here!
Regards,
Tim Murphy
Dear Fly Goddess,
Honestly, unless you are carrying the boat on your back for 50 miles does bladderless really mean anything?
What I would really like to know is how Scadden's boats defy the laws of physics and always manage to have greater carrying capacity and floatation than boats with larger diameter pontoons or bladders? It's scientifically impossible but he always claims greater flotation and capacity than the competition?
Best Wishes,
Avalon
Dave's boat's are okay, boats, as inflatables go. His have some nice features, even, some that other boat makers don't offer. But, other makers offer things that HE doesn't, I think, that's called "competitive marketing".
But, one huge thing, that others DON'T seem to offer is the ability to laugh yourself into hysterics, when you see their latest catalog!!
"Hey, every one!! LOOK at how tough, mean, and AWESOME I AM, because I have this very expensive bike, I bought only because there were enough of you that bought my over priced boats, I could afford it!"
"Yep! That IS............."real fish guts and chain oil" on my waders!! Don't I look, "MEAN"? Wanna touch my "Do-Rag" for luck? And, don't you DARE MISS page #6 of my 2008, catalog where I introduce the brand new, only one in the industry...... "Pre-inflated ATV air bag system" for safer off road riding!!
I liked D.S. boats a lot better, when he was working hard to make a really fine boat,and made them affordable to the average fisherman. Now, it seems, he's into the same vein of marketing and promotion, that many rod manufactures are also following........... "Make it so expensive, that every one will have to own one, for the sole purpose of being able to show it off and claim "LOOK, what I have, and YOU don't! Aren't I "special"?
His "list of 30 reasons to own a Dave Scadden Boat", also is interesting in the fact of; how many claims he makes that "our so and so feature, is the best in the industry"!! Well, by WHOSE vote and standards? A friend of mine, has a brand new, D.S. boat, with that "rear deck w/built in motor mount", on Dave's list and when he hung his 28# thrust, electric on this "best in the industry motor mount", the weight of the motor alone, BENT the cheap aluminum diamond plate. He had to cross mount a 2x4 against the "motor mount" to support his Minnkota.
And, I think he's sort of "reaching" a bit, to make it 30 reasons, when he has to list his "machined Derlin pulleys, for the anchor rope"!?! (Read, "lathe turned plastic wheels).
Yes, Scadden has some fine boats. No doubt about it. But his pricing base leaves a LOT to be desired for what he really offers, I feel.
Although................... I DO LIKE that ATV air bag system!!
Last edited by flybinder; 12-29-2007 at 04:54 PM.
Saint Paul-"The Highly Confused"
You cannot do a kindness too soon, for you never know how soon it will be too late.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
That's halarious!!! (funny but true). Thanks for the laugh today!
I am guessing this is why ODC, Skeeter, Creek Co., etc. are still around. For those of you who can't justify the price tag.
As far as the shelf bending.....did he clamp the motor right to the plate? the plate is only about 1/4" thick. Put a chunk of 2"x4" and about 6" long wood block in and I guarantee it won't bent. I never considered cranking my motor mount bolts all the way in to attach it to the thin metal. You look at any motor mount and they are either a 1" thick piece of metal or wood. Duh.
I like his boats as do a lot of others. I do feel he is way ahead of the game and does introduce the latest and the greatest. What is the newest thing you have seen from Outcast or Bucks?
I am not here to defend NFO, Duckster and myself share the same NFO boat and I for one think it is the neatest thing introduced to water since POWER BAIT. It is the predissesor (sp)
to the Outlaw.
Avalon, Thinner diameter toons can hold as much as larger if they are LONGER.
As far as Bladderless, the big advantage is the weight. To some that is very important.
Check out the top of the line on these two. The first one will take all day to set up the frame alone.
Daves boats are also AMERICAN MADE!
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=1178
http://www.outcastboats.com/outcastb...acseries.shtml
As far as his video or his ads, I see excitement and creativity, what do you want to see?
FlyGoddess wrote:
"I never considered cranking my motor mount bolts all the way in to attach it to the thin metal. You look at any motor mount and they are either a 1" thick piece of metal or wood. Duh.
Quoted from Scadden's site:
12.Genuine diamond plate rear decks. Huge capacity yet super light weight. Largest capacity rear decks in the industry.13. Built in motor mounts, built right into every rear deck system.Sorry, but I looked at all of "Dave's 30 reasons", for buying his boat over another, and never saw the statement......... "If you also reinforce the BUILT IN MOTOR MOUNTS, BUILT RIGHT INTO EVERY REAR DECK SYSTEM........with your own 2xx4....duh".Personally, after looking at my buddy's Scadden rear deck and "Built right in, motor mount", I wouldn't have mounted ANY size motor on it, without first reinforcing with wood.
Nor, am I knocking the Scadden boats for quality, and/or, innovative designs. They're nice boats, I've fished from two models now and liked them just fine. But, no, I can't justify the price, anymore that I can justify a $700.00 fly rod......... "Because it's the latest and greatest thing, since night baseball".
As for "changes and innovations", and "what has Outcast and Bucks done, lately?" Well, not much, really!! But, then again, perhaps their customer base is happy with the equipment, both already make. Maybe they "got it right", the first time around and don't feel they NEED to play "Paris Hilton Bling", every time they need new spark plugs for their road hog. I don't know. Don't care, either.
I'm always happy to hear, that someone is sold on a product and that they really like their equipment!! It's great... it's how we all learn about new and different things in our obsession.
But, when you look at a standard spinning reel, it has perhaps, about 75 well machined, close tolerance,finally matched parts. It sells, roughly, for $79.95.A fly reel. Hmmmm, has perhaps, 11 major, well machined, close tolerance, finally matched parts? WHY, does it sell for $279.95?A Mastery 4 fly line sells for $54.95. Nice line, for probably 95% of the typical fly fisher's 30 to 60 feet she/he will usually be fishing.
A Shark Skin is $99.95 and 95% of those sold, I'll wager, will be used by that SAME 95%, that will do the 30 to 60 feet throws.
SO? Point? Well, "Point being, and as EVERYTHING on this fine site.... ONLY my OWN opinions........ "A Marketing Blitz Runs Through It", I think the movie was called.
Or, in other words, for those of us, that can't/won't/don't care to "justify the cost"...... fly fishing, once you're off the water and in the boardroom, is one of the greatest "gimmick sports" in the world.
Companies KNOW that most flyfishermen/women, will pay ANY price for ANY item, if it's "The latest, greatest, gooderest,besterest,neaterest, coolest, thing since THE LAST MODEL was introduced"!
"WHAT, do I want to "SEE", in an ad for a boat? Well, for sure, not Dave Scadden dressed like he wants to star in the next serial of "Die Hard IX". I don't want blonds in thongs, either. Seeing, either, doesn't tell me squat, about the quality of a company's product.
Yep, Dave owns a nice motorcycle. That's nice, but if I were going to lay down $2,400 for one of his boats, I'd surely like to know more about the boat than the fact he can afford such nice toys.Sure, there are LOTS of "sillier ads", out there, than Scadden's, but somehow, his "tough biker image" just hits me funny considering he's tying it all into fly fishing, by also holding the rod and trying to sell 'Toon boats!?!!
We pay, what we pay, for the items we want to own, think we "NEED" and can't live without. It's what keeps the fly fishing industry afloat.
It's merely the fact, that each of us must decide how much quality we'll pay for, how much name recognition we'll pay for and how much dock side, bling, we're willing to pay for!
Saint Paul-"The Highly Confused"
You cannot do a kindness too soon, for you never know how soon it will be too late.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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