ANOTHER first fly rod

[ausable_ny]

Hi all...

I finally went our and purchased my first flt rod kit. I got the H&H 7'9" 4 piece 3 wt. Looks like great value for the $$$$. I'm not new to rod building...I've probably built 75 or so rods..all of them being being saltwater casting or surf fishing rods....big stuff (up to 11-1/2 ft) using mostly C & D size thread. I've never attempted anything as fine as a 3 wt fly rod. I have a few questions (hope you guys have some time ). The first has to do with splining the sections. I know how to spline longer rods, but am having a hell of a time with these short sections. I highly doubt if splining the bottom two (heaviest) sections is even possible, given how firm they are. The other two sections are really giving me trouble. Is it even necessary to spline these sections? Second question has to do with thread size. Can I get away with using a 'C' size thread? The reason i ask is because I have a spool of 'C' thread that almost perfectly matches the gunmetal color of the Orvis Battenkill Disc I plan putting on this rod. The closest rod building retailer to me is approx 30 miles...I guess I'm just too lazy to make the drive . I've always used Flex-Coat products, so that's not an issue. One more question (promise..for now). Would it be prudent to "knock-off" the sharp edge of the grip that is right above the reel seat. Seems like a few licks of sandpaper would alleviate a potential chipping problem. Well, thanks for your time. I'm sure someone here can help. Thanks again.

Ken

P.S. Where is a good source for a serrated winding check? I use Mudhole sometimes but was wondering if there is a place that caters to fly-rod builders?

[Joe Valencic]

Ken,

I built that same kit in July, and fell in love with the rod to the point that I used it for the rest rest of the summer and ignored the rest of my arsenal. It really is a sweet rod, but you'll find it needs a 4wt line to get any distance with it. It also roll casts like a banchee! Just awesome.

As far as spining this 4-piece rod, I simply used the "sight method" adding one section at a time, and it casts fine. The bottom two sections are moot point because they are so stiff, but I sighted them just the same to make sure any curvature was "UP." You could also roll them on a flat surface to achieve the same result. Then do the same with piece 3 and 4 individually. Tape on each section with a pencil mark will keep them in line while you work on the individual pieces. Once the curvature is "UP" on all 4 pieces, I used this as the inside of the spline (soft side) and mounted the guides on this side.

I guess you could knock down the edge of the cork, but I didn't . I guess it depends on how hard you are on a rod. Just make sure to do it AFTER the seat is glued into the cork so you have some rigidity to work against.

I have never used thread larger than "A" so I have no idea how "C" is going to look. My guess is it will look waaaaaaayyyy out of proportion, especially on a rod this small in diameter. It will also probably add significantly to the weight because of how much finish you'll have to put on the wraps to hide the thread. Here's before & after pics of your rod using "A" thread and one coat of Flex Coat Lite.



I believe this was wrapped with Gudebrod 0541 Medium Brown. Their 5274 Chestnut will give almost identical results and color. This blank looks great with 0206 Garnet and 0335 Candy Apple Red as well, all without CP.

I'm not sure where you can get a knurled winding check, but I do know there are lots of mail order houses out there. Go to this link and you can pick which ones you want to try: http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/inde...showtopic=6310

H&H might also have them, did you check their website? When you order the check you can probably get the "A" thread from the same place and save yourself a drive.

Have fun and post some pics as you go along.

Joe

[ol' blue]

The first has to do with splining the sections. I know how to spline longer rods, but am having a hell of a time with these short sections. I highly doubt if splining the bottom two (heaviest) sections is even possible, given how firm they are. The other two sections are really giving me trouble. Is it even necessary to spline these sections?

I don't spline anymore. I don't think today's rods need it. Like Joe, I'd rather wrap along the curve of the rod (if there is one) so it doesn't look like your rod is bent.

Second question has to do with thread size. Can I get away with using a 'C' size thread? The reason i ask is because I have a spool of 'C' thread that almost perfectly matches the gunmetal color of the Orvis Battenkill Disc I plan putting on this rod. The closest rod building retailer to me is approx 30 miles...I guess I'm just too lazy to make the drive . I've always used Flex-Coat products, so that's not an issue.

I agree with Joe--I wouldn't because I think C is too big for the rod aethetically and will add extra bulk (and weight) on your wraps. If you are interested in metallic, look for Sulky metallic thread at any of your local fabric stores. I would be cautious of other brands/types, because some have silicone in them, and will give your finish quite a bit of problems.

Would it be prudent to "knock-off" the sharp edge of the grip that is right above the reel seat. Seems like a few licks of sandpaper would alleviate a potential chipping problem.

It wouldn't hurt. I've used cork sealer from U40 lately, and it seems to help against chipping to some extent, too, as well as making the grip easier to clean.

P.S. Where is a good source for a serrated winding check? I use Mudhole sometimes but was wondering if there is a place that caters to fly-rod builders?

Look at Schneiders Rod Shop. They are nice folks and have good pricing. I do a lot of business with them, and they carry most of the Batson line and have knurled checks by Batson and PacBay, and some smooth ones from Struble and Batson.

[ausable_ny]

Thanks for the help, guys. Joe, that rod wraps up real nice, doesn't it? Love that chestnut color. Looks like I'll be making the trip for the A size thread tomorrow...all I have is C and D (even a few spools of E for the offshore trolling rods I used to build ) Hopefully they'll have some winding checks, too. I'll stick with the non-NCP thread as I like the look it gives. Do you guys recommend using epoxy for the tip or can I get by with the old Gudebrod ferrule cement (the kind you heat with a match). I have to run to the local Homies for some denatured alcohol in case I screw-up with the epoxy. The reel seat is already glued on and the cork is reamed..ready to go. I'll keep you guys updated. I hope to be wrapping by noon tomorrow. Thanks again. Joe, one more thing...how long are those ferrule wraps? Look to be about 1/2" or so?

Ken

[Joe Valencic]

Thanks for the help, guys. Joe, that rod wraps up real nice, doesn't it? Love that chestnut color. Looks like I'll be making the trip for the A size thread tomorrow...all I have is C and D (even a few spools of E for the offshore trolling rods I used to build ) Hopefully they'll have some winding checks, too. I'll stick with the non-NCP thread as I like the look it gives. Do you guys recommend using epoxy for the tip or can I get by with the old Gudebrod ferrule cement (the kind you heat with a match). I have to run to the local Homies for some denatured alcohol in case I screw-up with the epoxy. The reel seat is already glued on and the cork is reamed..ready to go. I'll keep you guys updated. I hope to be wrapping by noon tomorrow. Thanks again. Joe, one more thing...how long are those ferrule wraps? Look to be about 1/2" or so?

Ken

I use standard tip top adhesive and a lighter. I've not had any problems after 11 rods.

You can make ferrule wraps as long as you like. The minimum length for strength is 2.5 x the I.D of the female ferrule. Anything longer than that is window dressing.

Joe

[harleybob87]

having buiolt some very big rods, Let me just say size A thread. the things you are lookng for you can find at jstockard.com. Very reasonable and fast shipping. Joe and Blue have wrapped nore fly rods then myself and their info is right on the money as always. thought I would just kick my 2 cents in here.

[Greg F]

The rule of thumb I heard for ferrule wraps is minimum twice the diameter of the ferrule. I like to sand a rounded edge at the end of the grip at the reel seat, too. Looks good and keeps it from chipping. You may have to dremel out the recess in the grip to accept the reel seat easily, it will not stretch (don't ask me how I know).

[Joe Valencic]

The rule of thumb I heard for ferrule wraps is minimum twice the diameter of the ferrule. I like to sand a rounded edge at the end of the grip at the reel seat, too. Looks good and keeps it from chipping. You may have to dremel out the recess in the grip to accept the reel seat easily, it will not stretch (don't ask me how I know).

Good point, Greg. In my rodbuilding class I had two students playing with their components at home before the class, and both of them cracked the cork before we were ready to clean up the opening. I used 5 minute epoxy with scotch tape to hold it in place and fixed them at the start of class so they were ready to go when we got to that point. The Dremel works great for doing the fine work on cork.

Joe

[ausable_ny]

Guys,

That was the first thing I thought of...put a sanding drum in the Dremel and did a little fine-tuning to the cork. Took about 20 seconds. I'm off to pick up some thread in a few minutes. Found out they have the metal Pac-Bay winding checks, too, so it looks like one-stop shopping. I'll post some pics tonight of whatever progress I've made. Everything glued-up real nice, so I'm ready to go. Found the "set" in all the pieces and marked them accordingly, too. See ya all tonight.

Ken

[ausable_ny]

Here are some progress pics. Joe, I decided to go with the Garnet you suggested. I think it will be nice when the finish is applied. Working with this 'A' size thread will take some getting used to. I also decided to go with a knurled metal winding check...I like the way it looks better than the black plastic. Joe...I have one question for you. Take a look at photo 4. That is the position of the first snake guide (from the butt) according to the instuctions that came with the kit. Is that where yours ended up. Note how close that is to the ferrule (I highlighted it in white). That guide is positioned 49-1/2" from the tip. Let me know if that position is correct. I wont wrap it until I hear from you. Thanks.

Ken