dahlburgs that dont dive

[DDRRedneck500]

Ive been trying to tie dahburg divers from the intermediate fly tying section. but theres a problem. when I try to fish it, it doesnt dive and it just turns over and does weird things on the surface. Im gonna try and post a pic on here but are there any suggestions? Ive tied it from what I can tell is as close to the original as possible but it still doesnt work

[Bugsy]

...it doesnt dive and it just turns over and does weird things on the surface.

Is it spinning (in one direction) once it lands on the water? If that's the case, it might be due to a twisting leader, something not uncommon with diving bugs. To remedy, you might try...

• ...using a shorter leader and a heavier tippet. This will alleviate much of the annoying twist. You might try attaching the bug with loop knot such as the Non-Slip Mono Loop Knot.
  
  ...placing a barrel swivel in the tippet, several inches above the fly.
  
  ...making fewer, if any, false casts. The more the bug is zinging back and forth in the air, the more chance for twist to build up in the leader.

If it's more a matter of the bug landing on its back, it might be an issue with how the bug is tied and/or treated.

I find a spun bug body that is too long or otherwise too large for the hook can promote the bug landing on its back. I like the body to begin at the hook point or even a pinch in front of the point, but not behind it.

I pack the hair rather tightly. I think this makes for a more rigid collar and prevents the fly from becoming too soaked too quickly.

When finished shaping the collar/head, I coat the collar with vinyl adhesive. I find this also increases the bug's ability to dive on retrieve.

Varying the shape/size of the collar and head will result in bugs with slightly different actions. Experiment as you wish.

I do want the bug to sit in the surface as soon as possible, so I don't treat the fly with any flotant. If the bug sits too highly on the surface initially, it doesn't dive readily until the body has absorbed a bit of water.

I try to shave the bottom of the fly as closely as reasonable. I believe doing so allows the slight weight of the hook's bend to assist in keeping the fly oriented correctly. It also allows for maximum hook gape.

In this picture, you can see that the collar is treated with cement, though the head is not.

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[url=http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m89/FliesByEric/Bass/SwimmingBaitfish.jpg:3a113][/url:3a113]

[DDRRedneck500]

thank you sooooooooooooooooooooo much!!!!!!!!!!!! you just answered every question i had about dahlburgs and helped me out with a lot of additional info. THANK YOU!!!!!!

[Joe Valencic]

You're caught between a rock & a hard place with these big diving bugs. As Bugsy said, they want to put a twist in your line from false casting (shorter leaders do help), but if you want to get them under the surface you need to punch them out a pretty good distance to begin with, which involves false casting which puts twist in the leader. Feel like we're going around in a circle? We are!

When using big deer hair bugs, I try to use a 7wt or heavier rod. This way I have enough mass to roll cast those babies out to around 40-50'. That's for flat water.

On flowing water I simply let the bug and line go with the flow, and when I stop the line the bug is on its way down. Works like a charm. I will even bring the bug half way back, hold it in the current, and then let it float downstream again. This will often invoke a strike.

Joe

[chewydog]

In addition to the above, keep your rod tip low to the water. If it still doesn't dive, put your rod tip under the water.

[Bugsy]

You're welcome, DDRRedneck500.

And excellent points made by Joe and chewydog regarding line weights, retrieval techniques, and rod manipulation.

[billknepp]

Also, Larry uses a goodly amount of flexament and works it into the underside of the completed fly to of course ensure the bug stays together, But to also add a bit of weight to the bottom of the fly to help balance out the collar.
He also does not recomend putting cement on the collar it's self.. as it will cause the hair to be more fragile and break off prematurely.. But if you have really crumby deer hair it will add some stiffness to the collar...

[Bugsy]

Interesting...don't know about cement causing hair to become more fragile and break prematurely. Perhaps it has something to do with the hardness of lacquer or varnish. I use vinyl adhesive (not a true "cement," I guess) and have never had an issue with hair breaking...prematurely or ever.