Stability Question

[rodgerole]

Been looking at a ton of yaks,but haven't had anything on the water yet. I know,I know, ya gotta paddle one to see if it'll fit/work for ya.
Thought I might save myself some trouble and time by asking you paddlers about stability. I understand about initial and secondary stability, but have been wondering how much fly casting effects the wobble of a yak. If I get a yak narrower than 28" will I need to be worrying about staying upright when trying to reach as far as I can with a cast? Is the result of much arm waving and flailing about negligible?
I don't want to get a scow just for the sake of initial stability,but I don't want to go so narrow that I'm gonna get dumped when I'm not paying strict attention and trying to reach a fish that is just at the limits of my casting ability.
I'm prolly gonna try to get a yak that is 12' or less, but haven't decided if SIK or SOT is my yak of choice. We do have some cool weather here in Texas,so I'm kinda leaning toward a SIK. Maybe a Sundance or preferably the Airalite version.

[Hextall]

I have a Heritage Redfish (14'), and I can stand up on it (haven't stood and cast on it... yet).

So, my experience is that I have no problems with tipping while casting, but this may be a huge function of my boat. But for the most part, most boats that are good for fishing from aren't so tippy you'd have to worry about this (that's just my opinion, I got nothing factual to back it up).

One note... just paddle a little closer to that barely reachable fish. For the most part, I've never worried about spooking the fish while kayaking, until I'm literally right on top of them. I've had some fish within a rod's length from the boat hit the fly.

[Jed]

I don't worry about that. With most of your body mass at the water line and your upper tourso only doing some movement there is not enough weight shifting to make that an issue.

When you hook up a big fish you might have a problem if you hold the rod straight up and the fish is pulling perpendicular to your boat. So hold the rod towards the bow, the yak will turn and then you can hold it up higher. Nothing like having a fish tow your yak around to tire the fish out.

jed

[Jim Hatch]

Hey Rodger,

Lots of good boats out there. The Sundance you
mentioned is certainly one of them. Has a great
record. I recently purchased one for the county
as a door prize for our Paddle Trails Festival. It
was a sweet boat. Very stable and handled well.
Fit and finish was very nice. Seat was particularly
comfortable, an important feature to me.*G* Can't
go wrong with it in my opinion. The very nature of
the kayaks concentrating the center of gravity on
the bottom of the craft at it's widest point do much
for it's inherent stability. I generally recommend
the recreational class kayaks for fishing. Some are
available upgraded as fishing kayaks but I don't
consider that a major benefit. You can easily add
the accessories you want later as you get used to the
craft. The main thing is ya just gotta plant your
bottom in one and go for it.*G* Good luck! Warm
regards, Jim

[BigFlatBrook]

First of all, let me get my bias out of the way, so you know where I'm coming from. I have a Tarpon 120 -- it's an SOT, and I really like it a lot.

I don't have any problems fly casting from the kayak. One of the things I do is hang one leg over each side, which gives me extra stability. But even if I don't do that, flycasting isn't a problem. Sag on the backcast might be a problem sitting that low in the water, but that can be fixed.

I don't want to start an argument about individual preferences. But I am in the SOT camp.

First of all, cold water/weather shouldn't keep you out of your SOT kayak. We kayak in our SOTs in all kinds of weather here in New Jersey. You do have to dress for it. I have a semi-dry top that I wear over chest waders, I use that in combination with a wader belt that I fasten just below my sternum between the two layers of the semi-dry top. Obviously, I wear a good PFD over the top. Appropriate layering underneath completes the picture.

I've been in the water in this outfit. And, yes, you do get about a spoonful of water down your neck when you go under. The dry top has a latex gasket in the neck, and it doesn't quite keep all of the water out. But a spoonful of cold water is not enough to keep me from getting back in kayak if I were to fall out.

That brings me to what I think is the big advantage of an SOT kayak. If I fall out, capsize (very unlikely), get waked by a power boat and go over, or otherwise wind up in the water -- no matter how deep -- I *know* that I can get back in the kayak and paddle to safety. I've practiced that in deep water wearing waders, dry top, and the whole shebang.

Reentry for an SOT is fundamentally simpler than for an SIK. I could describe it for you, and you could probably do it the first time out.

Reentry -- or self rescue -- in an SIK is a bit more involved. You'll need a paddle float for leverage and a bilge pump to get the water out of your SIK. I'm not saying SITs are bad. There's a guy around here with an 18' touring SIT that goes places I can't. Wish I could. But I don't have the flexibility and strength to do the SIT reentry -- or at least I don't think so.

Bottom line, is that I feel safer in cold water/weather in that SOT than I would in an SIK because I've prepared for something to happen.

Now, you're going to say "BigFlatBrook, what could you possibly know about this? You just bought your kayak this past March, and here you are showing off your know-it-all self once again."

Yeah, that's true. But I researched the h*** out of this topic before I committed to buying that Tarpon 120. And, at almost 60, I wanted to know what I was doing before I went out there and put myself at risk.

Cold water/weather and reentry in my SOT aren't my main concerns. My main concerns are mostly centered around power boats and some of the idiot drivers in those things. But I'm trying to be prepared for those situations also.

Happy Paddling!

[dunfly]

For fishing a SOT is far superior to a SIK. It is easier to get to you stuff, easier to get into and out of and less confining. In Texas you can fish year round out of it. Just use your chest waders when its cold.

There are three kayaks you should try for fishing. The Wilderness Systems 140 or 120, Ocean Kayak Prowler 13 or 15 and Heritage Redfisher/Marquesa 14. I would try to stay between 12 and 15 feet in length. Longer kayaks are faster and track better.

If you have proper technique, fly casting is no problem. Since you are sitting lower, you will not be able to get full distance, but on the other hand, the steath of a kayak will get you closer to the fish. I think the 13' to 14' length is the best combination of lenght and agility, although I have a 15 footer due to my size.

[MOturkE]

There's always the outrigger option, too.

[Tom Cat]

If you want stability and the ability to stand and fly cast, check out a Gheenoe. They weigh 120 lbs without motor. Put a small motor or trolling motor on back and go long distances to a fishing spot and cast without fear of flipping. Like a canoe, paddles like a canoe only heavier and much more stable. Tom Cat

[rodgerole]

Maybe I need to qualify my stability question. I'm not gonna be standing to cast. I already have a 130 pound Kevlar flat bottom boat that could be used with a trolling motor or outboard motor up to six horsepower, and I can't stand in it because I'm a one-legger. The idea of a kayak struck me because I felt I might be able to tote a very light yak. The flat bottom is way too heavy to handle comfortably..matter-of-fact, after a day of fishing I can barely get it back in the pickup. I really don't like the idea of needing to register $$ a boat (the heavy one) that seldom gets used because of the weight. I can avoid registration fees with a self-propelled yak.
The stability issue crossed my mind after watching a filmed demonstration of rolling a yak.
I've been thinking about the difficulties I might have getting back into/onto any yak after I roll it, and at present I'm not sure that is possible. I don't know if it is possible to own and paddle a yak without at some time dumping yourself, but would like to think I can avoid such a calamity.
Then I came to the question of whether to wear my leg when yakking or stow it in/on the boat. I can prolly keep from losing it if I don't wear it,by attaching it to the yak and also attaching flotation(pool noodle(s)?) The leg is a pain in the butt to wear for extended periods of sitting. I'll need to keep my leg nearby if I can't/dont wear it, or I won't be able to retrieve it when I'm ready to dismount. I don't relish the idea of crawling to the truck to get my leg when I'm thru fishing....too rough on my remaining knee and what's left of me.
Maybe I'm being too cautious, but considering all angles before embarking on a new experience or project has always been a trait of mine. Pessimism? `

[Jim Hatch]

Hey Rodger,
There is one thing I would recommend that would make
the kayaking both easier and safer. Same for those
without any disabilities. A like minded fishing
buddy! It's great having an extra hand when needed
and when someone commits an "aw shucks" it can make
a ton of difference. From unloading and loading gear
to getting in and out of boats, we can all use an
extra hand from time to time. I have a number of like minded paddling buddies and rarely have a
problem finding an enthusiastic accomplice for my
shennanigans.*G* Warm regards, Jim