Rick's(rant) article this week.

[anglerdave]

Rick

You are right on with this one. Why people keep suggesting trout flies instead of panfish flies is beyond me. It's the same thing with leaders. But will let that go for now.

Dave

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Every fly fisherman has an unreasonable view of fly rods, and I am no different. Thomas McGuane from The Longest Silence.

[ohiotuber]

Seems like lately I'm in a cycle of putting my foot in my mouth! I DID suggest "trout" flies, along with others. Actually, it bugs me to see flies labeled as "trout", "pike", "bass', "panfish" flies, etc. Every fly in my boxes will catch numerous species. I suggested "trout" flies as I feel newcomers to bluegill fishing overlook some excellent patterns due to "labeling".
Mike

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You can call me Mike & you can call me Mikey..Just remember that this site's about sharing!

[anglerdave]

Mike

I think some patterns can be used effecitvely for both trout and panfish. Saturday I caught a nice big fat blue gill on a bead head GRHE. Even in their book, the Wilson's mention effective patterns for blue gills that are also used for trout fishing.

[meadowlark2]

I certainly do not agree that those who recommend "trout" flies for panfish are the enemy. All of us that love warmwater fishing are in this sport together.

It is a supply and demand based economy. If folks want special flies for panfish and demand them, then a supply will be forthcoming. As an example, a new start up on spinner flies is now going on the net.

IMO, the standard nymphs, sometimes called trout flies, are so widely available and so effective on panfish, that demand for specialized panfish flies is a distant dream and getting all warmwater fishers to ask for panfish flies an exercise in futility.

[Jim Hatch]

Hi Rick,

I enjoy your articles every week and this
one was no exception. I'm gonna swing
around to the other side this time though.
I'm usually one of the first to tell new
warm water fly fishers to try their trout
flies in warmwaters for good results on the
blue gills and other sunfish or to tell them
if they want to catch bigger gills, just
go trout fishing for them.*G* There are
many patterns developed for trout fishing
that represent the same kritters that make
up much of the forage that the bluegills
and other warmwater fish subsist on. I
use them in my warmwaters with excellent
results. The standard EHC's, PT nymphs,
Royal Wulff's, scuds, midges, and leaches
are my best producers here in my warm
waters as well as on my infrequent visits
to trout waters. I guess basically, these
are just good freshwater patterns as
opposed to warm or cold waters. But if
you want to tell a new guy where to find
them, your gonna have to send him to the
trout flies listings of the commercial
tiers to find them. In addition to the
fly selection, the good trout fishing
techniques, particularly in stealth and
watching not only your shadow but that of
your line go far in my waters in hooking
up with the larger members of the species.
Hence my suggestion to newbies to bone up
on thier trout fishing and take the
techniques on to the warm waters.*G*
Perhaps we should do away with the cold
water and warm water references and just
tell everyone these flies work best in
freshwater for freshwater fish.*G* Keep
in mind I'm no entomologist but this is
just my personal experience. Warm regards, Jim

[zzdruid]

i got to go to a large impoundment this weekend in the yak ( 10-20 mph winds-no problem although my "toon" buddies were getting blasted). As usual a WB was the starting point and there was only one taker. He was there for about 5 sec and then gone.

Following my experience from last week I put on a small beadchain minnow pattern I tie (#8 very light hook) with a #14 nymph ( non-descript, black). All of the fish were small , perch and gills, but I got as many on the nymph as i did the minnow.

I am beginning to think that there is as much skill in getting the big guys to bite or even the average ones when they are not in rut, as getting trout to hit. On some of our smaller and 'wild ' stream the wild trout are very opportunistic and will respond to presentation/stealth with less regard to fly. The insect connection on our warmwater venues is not nearly as well researched as all of the work done on trout water. It must be the same thing>> what are they expecting to see on theri plate.

I'm not much for killing the fish but reckon I'm gonna have to do some surgery to see some stomache contents.

BTW: thanks Joe for the interest in the Readers Cast Article. That was my first attempt.....uh it's Michael Aldridge.. or ZZ for short.

from Joes's :seach for the ultimate no weight rod>>>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>JEREMY:
Yeah man, ultralight fly rods are a gas! I've used this 00-wt. on three trips now, and it does pretty good.

I really connected with Jeremy Aldridge's "Reader's Cast" story in FAOL this week, especially the part where he switched to a much smaller fly (a tiny nymph). By coincidence, I did that exact same thing last Saturday and had good results. In fact, I'm now thinking about making a #12 or #14 nymph my standard go-to fly for 'gills, instead of the #10 that I've relied on for so long. Time will tell, but I might go smaller than #14 if future experience suggests doing so. For one thing, the smaller flies cast more naturally on ultralight rods. Well, for me they do.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[beadleech]

First let me say that I agree with a coupla points already; 1st, trout flies are definetly good BG flies. They replicate bugs which BG's eat. They're available easily. Often the point is made that only simple flies are needed for panfish. Simple flies - like wooly worms, for example? That may be the oldest "trout" fly pattern tied!! 2nd; "trouty" articles do help with your presention to panfish. Some things are simply universal. They will also often help your casting technique as they seem to explore the subject endlessly [is that really a word??] <G>

However, a way - possible one of the best ways - for a panfisher to improve his "fishin'" is to take up fly tying. You can then have all those local "panfish killers" that you can find all over the www. You will no longer sweat bullets when you throw your two dollar nymph "into the briar patch"!! You can experment with fly size, fly pattern, etc. You'll have another flyfishing thing to spend money on!! When you go to the fly shop you can spend extra time there looking thru the tying materials!!

Tite lines -

Donald

[Royal Wulff]

If Jim Hatch won't tell you how many gills and redears he caught on the couple Royal Wulff's I tied up for him, I won't tell how many gills and white perch I caught on the sliders (jellybeans) he tied up for me.

Nuff said!

RW

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"Maybe your stature as a fly fisherman isn't determined by how big a trout you can catch, but by how small a trout you can catch without being disappointed." <John Gierach>

[WarrenP]

Rick,

Good article and good questions and comments. There have been times while fishing the local rivers for trout that I on purpose fish for black perch and bluegill and do fairly well. I have had people ask me what special flies I am using to catch these fish and I have told them that since the bluegill, black perch and trout all live in the same house/river, they are all eating out of the same refrigerator! I think "trout" flies will work very well on bluegill in the rivers where they live with the trout, but, when I fish for bluegill in ponds and lakes I use flies I tie up special for bluegills and I agree that there are such flies for bluegill that will out perform trout flies in warm water ponds and lakes and that is because you need flies that represent the food source in that pond or lake system. Here is another thought/question for others to "chew on": Which came first, trout or bluegill to your river? If you answer that the river had no trout til your State intoduced them, then the next question would be are you using "trout" flies or "bluegill" flies to catch your fish?

I really feel that there is a difference between "warm water flies" and "cold water flies". What you call them makes no difference. You really need to use "cold water flies" in cold water and "warm water flies" in warm water if you wish to be successful. Match the hatch/food source.

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Warren

[Jim Hatch]

Hi Warren,

I can't take exception to your comments,
even though they are pretty much contrary to
my experiences. As I said, I'm not an
entomologist, and I have not done my
homework in a scientific manner to allow me
to say with confidence that either of us is
right or wrong.*G* I suspect a major factor
is the success we have had with particular
flies, the confidence we have in them, and
the fact that they are pretty much what we
fish with. I recently started fishing
leaches after Rick was kind enough to send
me some to try. They are killer in my
waters but I had not fished them before I
got them from him.

I know that there are some pretty good
entomologists here on FAOL. My question
for them is: Are there major differences
between aquatic food sources in cold versus
warm waters. Can someone shed a bit of
light as to whether we are talking apples
and oranges, or apples and apples. I for
one would appreciate any input you might
have. Warm regards, Jim