Carp frustrations.

[nuttyonepdx]

Howdy folks,
New member, long time lurker. I've got some frustrations. Frustrations with Big Lips. They don't like my flies. Doesn't matter what I toss em. They won't bite.

Oh sure, they'll bite on bait, but they won't touch a fly, even if it hits their nose. I went fishing today and caught two of 'em on bait tackle. When I switched to the flyrod, they snubbed me. I tried wooly buggers, dry flies, and nymphs. Nothing. In the past, these same fish have rejected all the above + minnow patterns, hoppers, berry bugs, worm flies, pom-pom worms, my "seed flies" and my "grass" flies. I'm really at a loss as to what to do!

Advice would be much appreciated. (I already read all the carp threads in here for the last year or so, but I'm still stumped)

[OkieBass133]

Carp are about the hardest fish to "pattern" I've ever come across, so don't be disheartened. Sounds to me like you're on the right track already, try a lot of stuff! But, that doesn't just pertain to throwing every fly in your box. You also have to vary your presentation. There are days when I can bounce a fly right in front of a fish's nose and it'll get right after it, and there are days when a fish won't even consider a fly unless I drop it on the bottom a foot away from it and don't move it an inch. If it's possible, go down to the water and just watch the fish, don't even bring a rod if that's what it takes to get you to stop fishing and watch. Look for where they're feeding, how they move their bodies, what they do when they see food. All of this will help you figure out what you need to do to get that strike. And you might have to accept the fact- sometimes they just won't eat.
Good luck.

[buttermilk]

Just for a test, try soaking your flies in WD 40. Bass fishermen use it by the gallon and it is illegal to be in your possession in some northwestern states. It would be interesting to hear your results.
Carp are finicky beyond belief! I was teaching a guy to fly fish and we were throwing to carp with no luck at all just as you. He said that was as exasperating as golf.
Don't give up! Whatever you do,,,don't give up!! It is a great challenge and learning experience and when you learn something, let us all know!
Most impotant is to have fun plotting and planning what you will do next to those ornery suckers!

Andy

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all types of fishermen must pull together for the good of all!!!

[Robert McMahan]

Nutty,
Welcome. Don't be a stranger here, join in. I'm glad to hear from another carp devotee. Okie's advice is good. Pay attention to what he says. I've seen him carp fish and he's got it down.
Here are a few things I'd consider:
1. What are the fish doing when you're casting to them? Are they cruising? If yes, they can be really hard to catch. You may want to leave that fish and look for another. Cruising fish may not be feeding fish. Look for fish actively feeding. That will up your odds. Also, a fish lying motionless may not be willing to bite. Fish are just like us. They don't feed 24/7. Many fishermen have the mistaken belief that they can catch any fish they see. Wrong. Like you, if you just had a big meal, you're not likely to want to eat again for awhile. Which leads me to my second point.
2. Consider what time of day you're fishing. You need to be there when they're eating and not when they're cruising or resting. In the Summer that's usually early and late. Just because you can see them doesn't mean you can catch them. They've got to be "in the mood".
3. What are they feeding on? Bugs? Bugs on the bottom? Bugs on the top? Or, are they sucking on cattails and gleaning the moss off them. Or maybe they're eating cotton wood seeds. They are very selective as to the size of fly and as to the location. If they're sucking on moss, you'll have a tough time but it can be done. Tie a moss fly with olive marabou or olive dubbing and dap the fly in front of the carps nose. If you'll get on your knees or your butt and creep up on them really slow and not throw a shadow on them, you can get right on top of them. Another trick, as Okie said is to just let the fly lay on the bottom. Sometimes I'll cast and cast to a carp and he'll ignore my fly but if you cast it past him and strip it by and let it fall, he'll ease over and examine it, tip up, and suck it in. If he doesn't, barely twitch it and he'll often pounce on it. Man, I get chills just thinking about this! I can't wait to get started again. They've got such varied personalities. Just like cats.
I went about 2 weeks ago. The water is still really cold and they were feeding on moss. No bugs yet. I probably cast to 20 fish and caught one. I think it's just too cold still. Which leads me to my third point.
3. Time of year. When are you fishing? Winter is tough fishing for most WW species. Spring spawn can be tough too. They've got other things on their minds.
4.Consider the size of fly you use. Sometimes they want a really small fly. Like a size 16 or so.
5. What is the clarity of the water? I've not had much luck fishing for tailing carp in muddy water. They have trouble seeing the fly and I have trouble seeing the take. They normally have a really subtle take and if I don't see them take the fly I usually don't feel it.
6. Try dapping (mentioned earlier). Some days that's the only way I can get one to take. Just dangling the fly right in front of their noses. Again, if you'll get down on your butt and knees and bend over at the waiste making a very small profile and barely creep along, you can get right up on them. I bought a pair of knee pads that basketball players wear that I put over my waders to save my knees and waders. Yeah, I'm serious about my carpin'.
7. Be stealthy. Carp often feed in pods and if you spook one, you'll spook the whole pod. Fish the one nearest deep water first. They'll usually spook to deep water and if you spook him, he may not spook the ones closer to shore.
8.Buy and read "Carp on the Fly" by Reynolds, Befus, and Berryman. It's not the "Bible" but, as far as I know, it's the best how to carp fishin' book on the market.

Good luck. I love fishing for carp.

[DVC]

You guys have given me the carp fever. I've watched those things time after time but haven't actually fly fished for them. Once a buddy of mine foul hooked one in the tail with a fly and fly rod and we both thought that he would never land it.
Robert, I went to Amazon.com and ordered "Carp on the Fly" as you suggested.
There are six or seven good canoe lakes within an hours drive of my home that have excellent bream fishing and I would suspect would have good carp populations as well.
Can't wait to get started!

[Robert McMahan]

DVC,
Beware, it's very addictive. I hope I'm not partially responsible if you lose your job and family over this. Be careful. Oh, and have fun. Seriously, I hope you have at least half as much fun fishing for carp as I do. Good luck.

[Robert McMahan]

Here's another tip. Okie put me on this: Use a short, light rod. My carp rod is a 6 1/2 ft. 2 wt. The advantage of this rod is that it's very accurate; you can dap easily with it (much harder to dap in close with a 9 footer); and it makes a very delicate (translate, "quiet") presentation, all very desireable qualities when carp fishing. My biggest carp to date on this rod is a 10 pounder and I routinely catch them from 3 to 7 pounds on this rod so don't think it's too small. Poke also uses a 2 wt. I know he'll chime in shortly with some good advice. If he can get away from his, shall we say, "friend" for awhile. I like to give Poke a hard time.

[OkieBass133]

I'll pick up where Robert left off on short rods
I also like my 6'6" 2 weight for carping because it has been my experience that the fish don't fight back as hard against a light rod. When I use my 5 weight, the fish will run harder, faster, and farther. The fight doesn't go any quicker with a heavier rod, it just goes harder. I prefer doing it the "easy way", and I'm sure the fish do too. Just remember a light rod doesn't neccessarily mean a light tippet. My standard carp tippet is 3X, sometimes heavier, almost never lighter.

And lastly, short rods are advantageous in many of the places I fish for carp because of the habitat. Lots of tall cattails, overhanging trees, docks, etc. All of that makes great habitat for carp, and with a short rod I feel a lot more capable of going in there after them, both in presenting the fly and in playing the fish.

[poke flyfisher]

Welcome to the wonderful world of fresh water sight fishing. My first suggestion would be to make a hard copy of all these posts and study them like a text book, because they represent a sound body of knowledge based on past experiences of some pretty savvy carp flyfishers. I would also add another book for you to read that has been very helpful to me "Carp Are Gamefish" by George von Schrader. Okie and Robert have given you all you really need to be successful. I would just add that stealth is probably the most important thing to catching these guys. They can't be aware of your presence. I've spooked them just by bumping into a submerged stick with my boot ten feet from where they are or by false casting too close or making a cast that is too hard with a bead head pattern. Most of my carping recently has been done by walking on my knees for good distances and dapping the fly in front them. Like Robert, I have purchased some knee pads just for this type of fishing. I like to experiment with different patterns for stubborn fish and will keeping casting to an active feeder until he either hits or spooks. Last October I must have made at least 50-75 casts to this one tailer with 4-5 five different patterns until he finally took my fly. I figured the way he was stirring up mud and muck, he had to be looking for something, and I finally found it in my fly box. So if you have the time, stay with him, that's part of the fun and the challenge. Cruisers are a different story and I still haven't figured them out completely but there's nothing more fun than to watch one turn its head and suck up your fly. I hate muddy water because you can't see the take, but don't rule out these carp either. When you encounter a situation where all you can see is an occasional tail above the surface, I would cast to where you think the head should be and then just keep lifting the rod very very slowly having the fly bump the bottom in his vicinity. Many times he will hit it just as you raise the rod. It's just like fishing for bass where all of sudden, without seeing anything, you feel a fish on! Good luck and keep us posted on your pursuit of these wonderful game fish. We're all still learning and need these posts to continue our education.

[ohiotuber]

This year, I'm gonna try for carp. I saw a show on TV recently & a guy here in Ohio had Flip Pallott fishing for them. They used "berry" patterns as berries had been dropping into the water. The guide had Flip noisily "slapping" the fly on the cast as the noise mimicked the falling berries. That might be of some interest...I know it was to me. It worked for those guys.
Mike