What do you guys think of this?
I don't really like it...I'm giving you the link to the Catskill Flies board, because that is where I have found the most information on the Casinos that might be built in the Catskills of NY!
[url=http://www.catskillflies.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=131:5bf1c]http://www.catskillflies.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=131[/url:5bf1c]
So, what do you guys and gals think?
------------------
"If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective."
Nobody here from the Northeast? Hello? You out there?
Is this too controversial or something? I know people, even those out West would have feelings about this.
------------------
"If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective."
Spud, I have read this post several times and I am just exasperated about it. This is a recurring scenario all over the country. I live in Oregon where land use laws were recently changed. The result is that problems that you addressed are happening here as well. Sometimes I feel like a salmon trying to breach a Columbia River dam. It seems useless but I have to try. Hopefully, one day $$$ will not have such a loud voice.
Thanks for your response, Gardenfish.
I didn't realize this was such a widespread problem...(although I knew of other problems).
I personally think this Casino thing is ridiculous...I might support one casino in the Catskills if it was built where there is an old resort already, even if I don't like it...five casinos is waaaay too much IMHO. One is too much if they put one on the banks of the Neversink gorge.
So are your problems out there also Native American land claims, or are they land use cases of a different sort?
------------------
"If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective."
Spud, the vote recently passed Measure 37 which abolished a law that prevented landowners from subdividing certain property into home sites. As the cities encroached upon rural farm land and as land owners aged, there came a push to change the law. The older folks want free of the land and their kids care not to farm.
We have several casinos in Oregon, but I cannot think of a conflict regarding rivers or streams.
Check out the compensation clause of Measure 37. [url=http://www.oregon.gov/DAS/Risk/M37.shtml:9a2f6]http://www.oregon.gov/DAS/Risk/M37.shtml[/url:9a2f6]
[This message has been edited by Gardenfish (edited 01 February 2005).]
I see your problem...that is a big one too. We're just starting to see the beginning of subdividing up here...makes me sick!
------------------
"If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective."
Land use issues...the REAL battleground for the environment. As the nation becomes more and more populous, competing land use conflicts are becoming more and more prevalent. As anglers interested in preserving the future of angling we are going to have to get a LOT more organized and politically engaged. You mentioned the # of cars that would crowd Rt 17...they're all driven by voters...taxpayers...and they want their casinos. The politicians assume that based on the crowds they see at other casinos. Furthermore, these same politicians covet the new tax revenue from casinos. Basically the same facts are in play with new subdivisions. Property tax revenue, rather than excise tax revenue, is the treasure chest with residential development. How does something as simple as fishing compete with such overwhelming opposition? We have to become MORE organized and MORE engaged in the political processes that effect our fisheries. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease," as LadyFisher points out. To politicians, it is all about the vote. You don't necessarily have to have #s on your side. You have to have "public sentiment" and significant #s on your side. We have to learn to use the ballot, the media, the committee processes in legislatures, etc. to our combined advantage.
Writing a letter or making a phone call is an excellent place to start, but don't stop there. These battles will only become more frequent and more intense with time. Learn to win early and often.
------------------
Fishing the Ozarks
Quite a few good points in there, SilverMallard.
About the route 17 thing...yes, the cars are driven by voters, taxpayers, and whoever else...but the problem is, a majority of them are from NYC and have no real feel for Upstate, except that it might be a place to go and have a weekend vacation or something. They would probably love a resort/casino so that they have something to do. Now some fishermen from NYC may have the same attitude, and may like a casino resort to go to at night or whatever, but I would imagine the majority of fishermen who love the Catskills would be opposed to these casinos.
From what I have gathered, the local fishermen don't want it, and neither do many local people. I don't understand why Gov. Pataki would do something like this...why not put them elsewhere? Like in a city where the casino belongs...
I agree that we need some sort of political power. As far as I can tell, and I don't know a heck of a lot about politics, but the fishermen would need a group to protect angling just like the NRA protects gun rights. Now I'm not going to bring the gun rights into this and all that, just bringing about an analogy. The NRA has a lot of power devoted to one main cause. I hope for the formation of a fishing group like that, but I don't see it happening very soon and much damage can be done before then.
I have written to the senators and the governor, explaining my disapproval...but I have been told by many that it is a losing battle and that I'd better fight an easier battle which would be to argue about where they put the casinos. That is a very just option, and I probably will, but not until after trying to sway the 0 or 5 casino decision!
Whew...that was a long post and a lot of rambling...off my soap box now.
------------------
"If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective."
Spud
you face the same thing there as we do in the NW. That is where the most people live pass the laws, and to hadies with the rural areas. I guess you got to love vertical liveing,,,,, Not
Ghost
I think this is the true nature of the great "political divide" we keep hearing about from pundits in the press and politicians. The country is divided roughly along rural vs. urban lines. The urban centers swing to the left while the rural areas tend to be more conservative. The urban folks consider the rural areas their playgrounds, dumping grounds, etc. while the rural folks say, "Hey! Wait a gosh darned minute! We LIVE here, you know!" The #s favor the urban folks and they tend to be better organized and more politically active, but the rural folks (the ones in all those "red states" and the ones who live in rural areas of the very few "blue states") are starting to wake up and smell the coffee and decide enough is enough. The battle lines are drawn. It goes right back to my post about land use conflict.
------------------
Fishing the Ozarks
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
