Perplex too? [page 3]

Well, I've met the Grand Poo-Bah and Ladyfisher when I was representing Team Loop and shortly afterward, sponsored by Thomas & Thomas... All I can say is that they are good people, but they are in the industry, you guys know that.

I'm not sponsored (sp?) by anyone now, maybe some support from St.Croix for a spinning rod, yeah, spinning rod. And I am a fly fisher no less. I've got a whole other angle on things as I grow older...

Some of you here know me, you know that I've written about the same topic at my own gig and that thread gets revisited all the time, it's definately a sore spot (that topic) to people like the Sage rep that answered, and especially to the two beforementioned web site wranglers.

Many of us have Sage rods in our quiver, my boracho friend tells me, he says, "hey, any Western angler worth his weight has a Sage in his quiver." and there is a lot of truth in that. I got a couple and hell yes, they are great rods, just too damn expensive. Problem is, the rods costing so damn much has done a few things that are not so good for fly fishing as a whole.

When you pay that much, you are paying for other people to go fishing, research and developement. For G~d sake, the fish can't tell the difference, only you can. I'de rather pay me to go fishing...

It's a slippery subject no doubt. I always look at it this way; hang gliders have been made with graphite tubing, tapered, same manufacture, on mandrels, wrapped blah blah blah, enough material to make goodness knows how much in EACH tube and the cost is less than one entry level rod from any manufacture. Aircraft quality no less.

It's insane...

Now forget all that.

Compare high end spinning rod cost to fly rods...

Now forget all that.

Now compare fly reel cost to a comparable priced bait casting rod.

Now forget all that.

Just forget that FAOL is a business and they contribute to the cost, no, forget all that.

Forget that it's fly fishing equipment because that's the problem.

I like this web site, it's a good read but when they snuffed YOU, the reader, they forgot all that; the reason why FAOL exsist.

It's a good web site still, I enjoy it and you (the public) will be force fed many reasons why the rods cost so much.

The absolute bottom line is that you are willing to pay that much money for them.

In my book, just like in life, you can pay for just about anything, a long sweet cast included.

Please, don't forget who you the reader is in the scheme of it all. You are the reason why this web site exsists and why the fly rods cost so much.

Think about it.

[RonMT]

Totally amazing. You have your own web-page and you come on here and give the people owning this site a hard time because you don't see things as other's do. Whats the matter you having trouble getting your free rods? Or getting someone advertising on your site? I can not believe that people can be so crude.

I know of at least two threads on this same subject that were locked up after JC gave everyone a fare shot at saying what they wanted to say. Now here we go again. You miss your turn or something?

You are right this "IS" JC's and "LF" site and you do not have the right to come on and take shots at them or the people that advertise here. If you don't like the price of rods my suggestion would be to write the rod companys that make them. Why come here and try and make the people that own this site look bad? It isn't working you are just making yourself look like you are jealous of what others have obtained.

I would go over the costs with you like the point "The more you make the less the cost" Or that "Fly fishermen make up only 10 percent of the people that fish". There are a heck of a lot more "Bait' and "Spinfishermen" they number about 90 percent more than the fly fishermen. But there is no use in me doing that you have your mind set that they are in some way screwing you?
Or what about all the low end rods that these same Fly Rod companys make? Not all of there rods cost a lot. Or what about the 4 and 5 hundred dolor Bait Casting reels that I have seen for sale or the 3 hundred dolor spinning reels I see for sale. You say nothing about these?

Sounds to me like you have an ax to grind with the Fly Rod companys I would suggest going direct to them and having your comments answered. Why take cheap shots at good people? It just makes you look a whole lot cheaper. Ron

[WarrenP]

Adam,

You have a lot of nerve coming into "our" home with mud on your feet! I looked at your web site and can't say I was as impressed with it as I was when I looked at FAOL. We are 6,000 strong and growing. Your web site states you all are fly fisherman, but, "we don't buy the elitist country club attitude that sometimes goes along with it". Well, I cannot think of any sport/hobby that does not have a few "country club attitudes" in it. They are the ones with the most money and they go where they want to. Get use to it or get out. You knock Sage rods for their price but on your web you state, "We met because we fly fish, some of us with bamboo". Are you saying a good bamboo rod is not high priced? You state, "I'm not sponsored (sp?) by anyone now, maybe some support from St. Croix for a spinning rod, yeah, spinning rod. And I am a fly fisher no less." More comments like that and St.Croix will join Thomas and Thomas and become someone who USE to sponsor you. Your attitude is too negative for anyone to want to sponsor you. After reading your post here, I can only say that I am sorry that Sage will not sponsor you but that is not my fault nor is it FAOL's fault. I would venture to say that if a poll was taken of our 6,000 plus members, you would be hard pressed to fine that the largest majority own high end rods. Most probably own the mid-range rods. (just my opinion) I know I do not own a high priced rod but probably will one of these years before I die. We have a great site and JC and LF do a great job. We would love to have you as a member if you would drop the negative attitude, grow up and learn to play the hand that life has dealt you. All of this is just my opinion and I will not respond back to you if you should choose to attack what I have said. I have stated my opinions and will now just go about my business.

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Warren

Get reel.

I've always felt welcome here, Castwell does a good job, so does the Ladyfisher, I don't always agree with them but hey, that's life; more importantly, I respect what they do. I like coming here because I know them.

It's all good in my book, Mr.Castwell, you are a gentleman indeed.

Now I'll get on back to my own back yard seeing that I peed on someones tree.

Take care.

adam

[Marco]

What amazes me is that the respondants actually saw a point to Adams post. Maybe it's just me and I have never seen an
"Adam tirade" before. I didn't know if I was to applaud or boo. And still don't. I will , however, assume, that based on the " if you don't like it, lump it" responses and that because I am an avid FAOL fan, Adam must have (tried to) written something I must vehemently disagree with.So be it.

Mark
PS: Remember Prof. Irwin Corey ?

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I'd rather be in Wyoming!

Cool, I tried to sign off but since you are asking...

I am not in the industry any longer, I probably never was... Recently went through some big *changes. I still write for fun, still a dyed-in-the-wool fly angler going fishing with some great guys also for fun and I'm just a working class guy so nope, won't be making anything like that.

Actually, I still get my "free rods" from good companies that I can actually buy what they are saying. I still got it there. I'm going to write Lefty soon, he definatly is good mojo and knows what time it is in that department, his rods kick ***.

Anyway, there is a small group of us who are working a new web site, the one that was alluded to, still no commercialism, lives on it's own accord, the older site still rocks too...

Looks like you got your hands full, good luck keeping it reel.

Take care and I'll ring in again when it's time.

adam

* divorce, mariage, flat broke, quit old job, gotta fantastic new job, caught an elusive bonefish in Puerto Penasco (yeahoo, 'bout 10 years of hunting them) and now, new group of guys who are flat out stoked about writing and producing the goods.

I was going to stay out of this. never seems I can. I sent adam the locked link because it was interesting reading. I especially found ward's and johnson's perspective's to be very valid. and it's an issue adam writes about. I don't always agree with him, though we agree more and more as the years proceed.

y'all jumped his case unfairly. his initial post and subsequent were complimentary of jc, ladyfisher and faol.
nobody agrees when it comes to fly tackle, flies, or tactics. that's just the way it is and it's also why these forums thrive.

I have high end rods. love em too. I also build rods on blanks I want to cast and adorn them with the jewerly I find attractive. catch fish on yer winston, catch fish on yer $70 hook and hackle kit. none of that matters in the end.

fish what you like. I fished with adam yesterday. gnarly brush, thin water, snakes. he was fishing a top end rod. I was fishing sa hand built st. croix avid 6' 3wt...they're niche rods. as we progress we find these things and use them hopefully effectively.

adam has a point. I'm not sure I get it, but it's valid. if a T$T blank can be wrapped for $50 and it goes to the flyshope for $100 why the hell do I have to pay $300 for that s.o.b.?

my suspiscion is that adam will go home, make that work and leave y'all alone.
I do have to say though that he said nothing whatsoever deregatory about faol, jc, or deanna.

he's just got a voice anmd occasionally wants to be heard. as we all do.

I've prolly said enough. but we're going fishing tomorrow. how 'bout the rest of y'all?

mgj

[nowindknots]

mikeytwoshoes, you are indeed wise for your age. Reasonable people should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.

If someone sincerely does not understand why something is priced as it is, an answer should be available without undue rancor or personal attacks.

Jim

[RonMT]

Having read all of this I must say that I to can buy rods at very good prices and I do understand why they cost what they do And I to use to do a lot of shows around the country. I had a rod company that sponsered me and a reel company also. I have also been a guide and outfitter for many years. You name it and I seen it in the fly fishing world. If not it is becuase I wasn't looking to hard at the time.
Are some rods a little over priced yep maybe just a bit. But guess what none of them are so over priced as to cause all the hupla that has been expressed here in the last few week.

The reason for the prices on the rods has been given on some of the threads that were locked down but it didn't seem to matter with people that have there mind set one way. Even though very good reason for it were given. They are over priced in those person's minds and that is it.

I don't know the fellow that started this thread from a tinnes ball. All I saw was another person starting up on something that had been locked down twice. To me it was like a smack in the face to the people that own and run this board and the one's that post here. Maybe if this fellow posted here more we might get to know him and understand were he is coming from.

A person can only go by what is written and how it is written on these boards. You can't read a person minds. If a person is taking what I think is a shot at someone I like and respect I will say something about it. That is what I did. Maybe now we can bury this subject. I think it needs it real bad. I know I am done with it. Ron