dubbing on small dries

[djamieson]

I'm pretty new at tying, and my smaller dry flies are coming out a little bulkier than they should be. I was wondering, when you're tying flies around size 18 or 20 (I've been tying Adams and ants), is it okay to just skip dubbing altogether and just use your thread, if it's the appropriate color? How would that affect the fly's floating abilities? Maybe should I just use a finer, higher quality dubbing? (I'm using rabbit dubbing that came in a case of 12 different colors; I forget what I paid, but it was probably pretty cheap and maybe intended for nymphs.) Any advice would be appreciated.

Best,

Dave

[Joe Billingsley]

Dave,
Rabbit is pretty soft but there are some synthetics that will be much finer. Silk dubbing would probably be the one to use for very small flies since it is so fine. Thread alone would work as well on tiny flies (I'd say a size 20 would be about the very largest to even try thread only on), but it would take too much of it on a fly of any size. Just remember on small flies -- when you start to dub the body take the smallest amount of dubbing you can imagine out of the package, and then put most of it back in and dub with what's left.
Joe

[Thwack]

Couple of things to try:

1) "touch dubbing"...tie on the tail(s) for your fly, then pull out some thread and hold it snug with one hand while rubbing a good tying wax (like BT's) on your thread. You should NOT have wax showing on the thread (that means you put too much on). Spin the thread back and forth with as you lightly touch a chunk of fluffed hare's mask dubbing against the wax along the portion of the thread you waxed (spinning the thread lets dubbing get all the way around the thread quickly/easily). Only a small amount should stick...start wrapping that on your fly and it'll be just right for tiny flies. If you want it less buggy looking, pinch the dubbing onto the thread after touching and before wrapping. I was shown this method last weekend at a local fly shop (thanks Jim!). Easier to see it done than read about it but you can probably find a longer version with pictures online if you Google for "touch dubbing".

2) Try using a single strand of punch embroidery yarn. It has two strands normally, so snip off a length of it, separate the two strands, and use just one for small flies. Here are links to what it looks like without much else around it:

top view:
[url=http://thwack.smugmug.com/photos/8529679-O.jpg:d12c7]http://thwack.smugmug.com/photos/8529679-O.jpg[/url:d12c7]


side view:
[url=http://thwack.smugmug.com/photos/8529678-O.jpg:d12c7]http://thwack.smugmug.com/photos/8529678-O.jpg[/url:d12c7]

If you're having trouble making fine dubbing do what you want, punch embroidery yarn is pretty handy stuff. Al used it for a variety of patterns here on FAOL.

If you want a real challenge for tiny dubbing, try mole.

[Hans Weilenmann]

Twack,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
If you want a real challenge for tiny dubbing, try mole. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps I am overlooking something? I really like to use mole as dubbing. Works a treat on small flies and large.

Cheers,
Hans W


------------------
=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
http://www.danica.com/flytier

[Thwack]

Hans,

I use mole too, but check the first post in this thread and you'll see:

I'm pretty new at tying...

Think back to the FIRST time you tried using mole. Those tiny tiny tiny short hairs can be challenging to rookie tiers (especially the first time they attempt to use it). That's the "challenge" I was alluding to.


[This message has been edited by Thwack (edited 07 March 2006).]

[Hans Weilenmann]

Twack,

Think back to the FIRST time you tried using mole.

I tried, but my memory banks do not extend back far enough

Seriously, though, I do find that mole dubs as easy, or easier, as/than rabbit once you have the pressure-when-twisting technique under control.

Dave,

One of the key components when attempting to dub is to use very-very little, as already indicated, but also to spread out your rabbit pinch of dubbing so it appears as a fine mist on your fingertip.

Place the 'mist' onto your thread, held taut with your left hand (assuming you are righthanded), and twist on the dubbing rubbing thumb and indexfinger pads _tightly_ together, and in _one_ direction only.

Contrary to poular opinion, one does not adhere the dubbing to the thread itself, but one creates a cylinder around the tread consisting of interlocked and matted dubbing strands.

Cheers,
Hans W


------------------
=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
http://www.danica.com/flytier

[JeremyH]

I would try using Superfine dry fly dubbing. It's very fine with really long fibers, so using it on small flies is no problem. It's probably the easiest dubbing out there to work with as far as the actual twisting to the thread, and it easily makes a perfect body taper. Also, when you pull the dubbing you're going to use off of the clump (very, very small amount as already mentioned) you'll notice that what you have is a bit thicker at your fingers and gets progressively thinner down to the thinnest part where your clump actually separated from the bunch. This is the taper of your body. start twisting the dubbing onto the thread with this thinnest end first (at the back) and twist down to the thickest portion last. You can pull and shape the dubbings taper as you move down if there are thick parts, but if you do it right this technique should give you a very nice and even body taper. When dubbing the thorax on parachute flies reverse this process and dub the thickest end on first since you want the dubbing to taper down to the head at the eye.

Another thing I would suggest you look at is thread usage. I think most people (beginners and experienced tiers) pile way too much thread onto their flies resulting in bulky bodies. I used to play a little "game" with my flies. When I had a new pattern I was learning to the point where I thought is was technically acceptable I would start to concentrate on using less thread. The challenge was to use less thread on the fly each time I tied it until I got to a point where I felt I could not possibly tie the fly with less thread.

Good luck, and most importantly have fun!

Jeremy

[Bob Widmaier]

I also use superfine dubbing on my dry flies. It is very easy to use, makes a thin body and comes in many colors. It works well on very small hooks. However, the thread idea will work fine too on 20's and smaller.

Dr Bob

[djamieson]

Thanks for everybody's replies. Jeremy, you're probably onto something there with thread usage. My parachute ants are coming out way too bulky all along the shank, without the pronounced dumbbell shape that's crucial for the pattern to work. Time I start limiting my wraps.

Best,

Dave

Dave,

As others have said and as you'll come to see, there are materials that are suited for certain types of bodies or effects. Even within a particular 'natural' material like rabbit, there are ways to create dubbing for special uses. I have used rabbit dubbing for flies as small as 28s. I just had to take the guard hairs out as I cut the fur off of the hide. Same with muskrat or beaver.

When it comes to dubbing, as was told to me by an excellent tier, "Less is more" and "You just want to cover the thread".

Allan