Mustad Hooks: Standard vs. Signature
What is the difference - other than price - between the Mustad "Signature" hooks and their "Standard" hooks? I'm asking about the trout fly models. Is it just that the Signatures have a micro barb, which I will mash down anyway, and the Standards don't?
Thanks,
Joe
Joe,
I'm fairly certain the Signature series is chemically sharpened. Maybe the metal formula for the wire is different or somewhat thinner?
Allan
Joe:
In addition to what Allen said; the big claim to fame with the Signature Series is; (from the Mustad catalog):
"Unparallel sharpness and strength"
"Exact proportional consistency resulting in precise scaling of fly patterns across each hook size range for a level of uniformity no other premium fly hook can guarantee".
They also have an alpha numeric code system for these hooks that simplifies figuring out what the model number refers to. By the way, all Mustad fly hooks are chemically sharpened.
Do yourself a favor and call or email Mustad and ask for a catalog. Their website leaves a lot to be desired. The new catalog is excellent with pictures of all the hooks they make; it is truly amazing and an excellent tool for choosing hooks. If you dabble in any other type of fishing besides fly fishing you?ll LOVE this catalog.
[url=http://www.mustad.no/:13d8b]http://www.mustad.no/[/url:13d8b]
[This message has been edited by Bamboozle (edited 05 September 2005).]
I emailed Mustad for their catalog. Thanks.
Concerning chemically sharpened hooks: I assume that they are sharper out of the box than those that are not sharpened chemically. Will they hold their sharpness longer? Should they still be sharpened before they are fished with, like everybody seems to recommend before you start tying flies with them? Or are all hooks chemically sharpened these days?
Just wondering.
Joe
Joe:
I BELIEVE all or most hooks are chemically sharpened. I don't have much of a problem with hooks I do have to sharpen getting dull quick. Usually the only reason a hook gets dull in most fishing is due to snags and the like. That usually results in a bend or break of the tip of the hook point that you re-dress back to a point.
As far as chemically sharpened hooks being sharper than non-chemically sharpened hooks I really don't know but I find that all of the premium hooks out there are bloody sharp as heck right out of the box. On occasion I check a random hook or two while tying with the old reliable fingernail test but I can?t remember the last time I felt the need to sharpen a hook on the bench. If I found my preferred brand to be dull out of the box I?d choose another brand. It?s a step in the fly tying process I don?t feel should be necessary with today?s technology and hooks although I?m positive some would disagree.
I almost always check hook sharpness streamside and touch up my hooks accordingly especially when nymph fishing or if I lose a fish. It justifies carrying that EZ Lap Hook Hone that I always have with me. Fussing streamside gives me more time to think why the fly I?m tying on and sharpening is not the right choice for the rising fish in front of me.
All I can tell you about hooks is that I do a lot of fishing for largemouth bass with soft plastics which requires super sharp, tough hooks. ALL of the bass hooks out there made by the top manufacturers are super sharp, stay sharp, and are tough. I don?t believe the fly hooks they make would be that much different in quality.
[This message has been edited by Bamboozle (edited 06 September 2005).]
Hello Joe
Allow me to jump in and answer your question. I'm the guy here in North America responsible for all the Mustad and Partridge fly hooks and actually worked with my counterpart Geir Sivertzen (Dr. Hook) to develop the entire Signature range.
All the fly hooks in the "classic" range like the 3906B, 79580, 94840 and so on have what we refer to as a "cut point" (not a cutting point). A cut point is simply a hook point that is formed when the wire is cut at an angle. This gives you a point with decent sharpness and a very good price.
The Signature Series hooks offer much more than the classic hooks. Because of the increased production costs they are more expensive than the classics. So just what is different about them you ask . . .
1) The Signature series are the only proportionally correct fly hooks on the market . . . PERIOD. This is to say that as you go up or down in size the wire diameter, hook gap and tying length increase, or decrease proportionally. So, if you love the size 22 in say the R50 model, you will like the size 2 just as much because it has the exact same proportions. No other hook company out there is offering this. Why is this important? Well, lets say that you are tying a small nymph on a size 16 hook. The hook performs well for you and you also want to tie the same pattern on a size 8 hook to imitate a Stonefly. Well, with most hooks out there, you may go to the size 8 and find that the tying length is not the same and now your fly is short and stubby or the gap is too narrow. The proper proportions on the Signature series eliminate that issue.
2) All the hook points within the Signature series are chemically sharpened premium points with micro-barbs. We utilize different point processes to guarantee that our points are very sharp and are more durable from one end of the size range to the other, compared to our competition. They offer the most durable premium points on the market today.
3) Quality control is a major issue with this range. While we certainly do our best to offer excellent quality classic hooks, the Signature series are produced on the latest equipment ensuring perfect eye closures and exceptional quality.
4) While the Signature hooks are certainly more expensive than our classic range, we are competitively priced compared to our premium competition and in cases like our stainless hooks, we are far more reasonably priced.
Just a few general comments on the hooks
As far as wire quality goes, we use the same high quality wire to produce all of our fly hooks. Mustad is the only hook manufacturer on the planet with our own wire drawing mill. This means that we control the quality of our hook wire from the very start unlike our competition who must buy wire from outside sources which can cause quality issues. If we have wire that just does not meet out standards, it ends up on our paperclip machines ??. Did you know that we are the only hook supplier out there that produces 100% of the hooks we sell? It??s true and that allows us to offer a quality product from one end of the range to the other. Ever take a look at some of the other hooks out there and see that there might be 3 different shades of bronze within one model number of a hook? This is because they are buying the hooks from different suppliers. While this is not necessarily a major issue, it certainly opens the door to quality issues. No, not all hooks produced are chemically sharpened. This does add cost to the process and therefore only premium hooks are typically chemically sharpened (actually called chemical polishing).
It is true that we have a new catalog that shows every hook we offer in actual size, Mustad and Partridge included. There are lots of great fly hooks out there that are not sold as such so it pays to look at the full range of products. Most every hook can be viewed on the Mustad website and by following the easy directions, you can print pages in actual size off the website.
Hope this helps answer your questions but let me know if there is anything else you want to know.
Now it's time to pack my bags and hop a plane to the Denver Fly Show this afternoon. Nope, no fishing for me on this trip.
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Jeff - AKA Dr. Fish
If it has fins and swims than I must chase it!
Dang it's nice to have someone like Jeff available to answer these types of questions!
I gotta say I have always liked the Mustad hooks, but that could be my Norwiegian heritage skuing things a bit.
The lates thing I have done is to take a tip from Jim Hatch and started using Aberdeen hooks for many flies in sizes 8 and larger. Not for everything, but that once I use up my other hopks, who knows.
Don
Don Rolfson
Glad to help Don
Jim is onto something there. Aberdeen hooks are GREAT for tying many types of flies. I've been using them for many streamer and saltwater applications. In fact . . . keep your eyes open for some net hooks coming soon . . . can you guess just what shape they might be
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Jeff - AKA Dr. Fish
If it has fins and swims than I must chase it!
WOW!!
Dr. Fish;
What a wealth of very good info!
Thanks!! Your discription of the manufacturing process is great. Brought back memories of my 40 years in automotive manufacturing. Tight tolerances all the way.
I use Mustad hooks for most of my tying, now I know why!
One suggestion, if I may, Tiemco has this neat little magnet strip in their hook package that sort of controls the hooks.
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I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here!
Cactus AKA "Lucky Dog (Pirate Name)"
My big issue is that the sigs all hae closed eyes, nothing worse then a open eye
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