Hook debate courtesy of Joe Humphreys

[RkyMtnGuy]

I spoke of a limited dubbing selection briefly in another thread where Mike Lawson stated that he ties his flies in basically four colors to represent the Mayfly Duns. To refresh your memory the colors were Olive, Tan, Pale Yellow and Slate.

Joe Humphreys too made a statement that he ties his dryflies in black, dark brown, gray and sulphur in his book Trout Tactics.

In another book titled Flyfishing The Tailwaters by Ed Engle, he too supports a philosphy very similar to Mike Lawson's. When discussing colors of nymphs he speaks of focusing on tans, browns, olives and black. He does leave latitude for scuds, worms, freaky bugs and regional variations but again, he emphasizes basic color selections in a range of sizes.

All and all this brings me to emphasis of this thread. Joe Humphreys as most of you know is an exceptional angler or atleast he is perceived that way by those of us who have witnessed his tv appearances, videos and books.

After reading a chapter on nymph design and imitation I was really focused on a statement that he essentially ties his nymphs on a single hook style, the Mustad 9671. He did mention that for night fishing, he used a Salmon type hook in about a size 1 to 2/0 on which he dressed his wetflies. I believe it was Mustad 36890.

We all know that there are a myriad of hook styles, sizes and companies in the marketplace.

My question is two-fold.

1) Are you the type of flyfisher on ties on a limited number of models of hooks and concentrates more on the fishing game itself?

and if not

2) Do you think that a person can who ties on two or maybe three hook models can experience as much success as the guy who ties on an unlimited palate?

I would really like to hear your comments on this as I know Trout Tactics was written many years ago and things change over the course of time. I don't know Joe Humphreys personally but somehow I would think he sticks pretty close to this baseline philosophy of simplicity and function!

[This message has been edited by RkyMtnGuy (edited 09 September 2005).]

[SonOfMartin]

I read Joe's book several times when I first started fly fishing. I also read lots of other books with different opinions. However, now I wished I had spent the money I spent on those other books differently.

Joe's pretty accurate in his information. He's a local fellow and I've sat in on many of his clinics. I can say that if you adhere to the "minimalist" camp, you will save yourself years of learning curve. Here's why...I just went through literally a 2 year process where I tracked each fly I used and what worked and what didn't. GUess what.

If I had just stuck to what Joe says in his book, I would have saved lots of time and money by just tying up what he suggested, because IT WORKS!

These "old guys who write old books" pretty much are writing to teach, not just to create another book that says the same thing, again.

[RkyMtnGuy]

SonOfMartin,

Reading a book or viewing a video is quite a different experience from actually sitting in on a clinic with someone whose material you have absorbed.

Would you please give some more information about each of these clinics you have taken part in.

Did you watch Mr. Humphreys tie at the vise? What did you observe or hear that you pass on to those of us who have not been graced by his wizardry of experience?

What flies did you notice in his flybox, if he allowed you to peek inside?

Did his flies have a crude appearance suggestive of life or were they more polished?

What do you recall of his tying philosophy that maybe you can pass on?

Please offer up some detail on the experiences you had while in the presence of Joe!

This same suggestion goes out to any others who have had the pleasure of being in company with Joe Humphreys.

[Jayatwork]

For nymphs, I use mostly 3 types of hooks depending on size. 6XL in sizes 6-8, 3XL in sizes 6-10, 1XL in sizes 10-18. Some patterns look better on a TMC 200R or a scud hook, but I think thats more for me than the fish.

I use a similar selection in dry fly hooks.

Jay

[kjgallaher]

I have seen Joe H. cast! I suspect his fly presentations are top notch. This may also play a critical role in the success he has with his flies.

Regards,
Keith

PS. SonOfMartin, how long have you been in Hershey? Are you affiliated with the Med Ctr? I spent 9 years there and have fond memories (for most of it).

------------------
"Time's fun when you're having flies." Kermit the Frog

[RonMT]

I tie for a living and tie most of my nymph's for sale and myself on one style of hook. That is in truth all that is needed 99 percent of the time.
But I do use other hooks for different flies Scud hooks and Emerger hooks are used to. I also tie most Dry Flies on one style of hook. Not all but most. Same with streamers and so on. If someone requests another hook than what I use there is an extra charge for those hooks.
I don't know Joe never met the man. But I have tied for a living for aboput 40's years and I do know that most fish don't care what hook the fly is tied on. I have used dry fly hooks for nymphs when the nymph hooks were in short supply. Guess what the anglers didn't care and nither did the fish.
Me believe's you are taking this thing to serious. Just remember the KISS method and you will do fine.
You don't need every hook made to catch a fish. If it were me I would be more worried about how the fly was tied and fished not what hook it is tied on. Ron

[This message has been edited by RonMT (edited 09 September 2005).]

[BigFlatBrook]

I rate well below the other responders in experience, but I'm going to throw in my opinion anyway. For small flies, I think that a straight-eye or an up-eye hook might provide an advantage.

The down-eye hooks have a smaller gape, and it makes sense to me that they would have less efficiency in hooking.

Someone might argue me out of that one, but I think I can defend the use of size 18, 20, and even 22 nymphs. When the PA spring creeks get clear in the summer, those small nymphs work pretty well.

[SonOfMartin]

No, the only part I have with HMC is that I live too close to it. The 'death moth' sometimes wakes me up. Sorry, very sick inside joke.

Concerning listing dates and times I sat with Joe at his clinics. I can't remember what I ate for lunch on Wednesday! Suffice it to say that Mr. H. regularly gives clinics at various locations and I've sat through at least 3 or 4. My son has fished with him.

The man "can cast" and you're right - presentation is paramount to catching fish - regardless of fly used.

As to his fly box, son #1 reports that they are "just like the book". Look like bugs, not like showcase flies meant to catch tourist fly fishers.

Mr. H. is a down to earth guy and his fishing equipment and flies reflect that.

My two year study required that I keep detailed notes of my flies and fish caught, and it didn't surprise me that I carry about 500 flies too many when I go out.

RkyMtnGuy,

My feeling is that there are very few, if any, 'absolutes' in fly fishing. On a personal level, a persons fly fishing credability is directly and inversely proportionate to the 'absolute' comments they make. Absolutely!

As far as your questions:

1. Limited only insofar as the hooks that are available and the price I'm willing to pay. Yes, I do concentrate more on the fishing during the season. However, in the winter I concentrate on tying since I cannot fish.

2. I have absolutely no idea. By the way, how do you define "success"?

Allan

[RkyMtnGuy]

First to reply to an earlier comment about possibly "taking things a bit too seriously"!

Nope not taking anything as serious or gospel, I am only partaking in some conversation as I would do if there were other flyfisher folks sitting across the table and wanting to enter into a discussion pertaining to a topic.

Thanks to SonOfMartin for additional comments. My perception is that Joe Humphreys would be a truly remarkable character to share some time with at the vise or streamside.

To Allan. Success? Good question. Everyone measures success differently don't they?

As to my use of the word success in my initial post, I was intimating a scenario even though I more than likely didn't make it crystal clear enough for some people to answer.

The scenario being that if you gave an angler a handful of say, Rene Harrop flies and a handful of Joe Humphrey flies (which to me appear to be rather crude compared to Rene's skills at the vise) would there be a discernable increase or decrease in success rate for the angler.

Obviously I would be talking about matching up...duns for duns, spinner to spinners, emerger to emerger, nymph to nymph..etc.

It's all in conversation and to see what kind of responses are fielded by the topic.

Thanks Allan. Hope I made it a bit clearer!