What knot....4lb flurocarbon to Fly

[JohnScott]

Jim -

Whatever tippet material I am using, when I tie a clinch knot, after I pass the tippet through a tip ring or through the eye of a hook, I form a fairly large loop and then hold the loop, with my left thumb and forefinger, wide open away from the tip ring or hook eye. After doing four turns using the right hand to complete the turns by passing the tag end over and around the standing tippet four times, I pass the tag end through the loop I am holding open and start snugging it up, after wetting it.

It seems to me that using this approach to forming a clinch knot would work with a swivel ( that swivels ) because you are holding the open loop firm and not even involving the swivel until you have mostly completed snugging the knot down. At that point, there is no reason for the swivel to swivel as you complete setting the knot.

John

[Philly]

I use the improved clinch when I'm attaching swivels to my spinning gear, the one or two times a year I break it out. For small swivels, I just bring the line through the top part of the swivel and form the loop. I hold the swivel and the bottom part of the loop, make my wraps and bring the tag end through the loop and tighten it for the clinch knot or for the improved clinch bring it through the bottom loop and then though the loop at the top of the wraps for the improved clinch.
My last stop before fly fishing was ultra light spin fishing. I have 6 foot ultra light rod with spinning reel to match. I went all in with it using 4 lb mono. Then I started losing fish, lures and rigs. Eventually I ended up settling on 8 lb test which allowed me handle larger fish. I have two spools for the reel I use one has 8 lb fluorocarbon the other 10 lb braid. The rod is built on a one of kind blank, so it's not going to see any action in the near future.

[Whitewolf]

Thank you John and Philly. Actually thank all of you for posting info on here. It has helped me a lot. I just woke up to the old familiar clinch knot.....tks to you guys. With the Jam Knot there is only one strand going thru the eyelet. Same with Clinch knot. Only one strand thru the eyelet. So the debate has been that some knots don't work with fluro. So I search the internet and the Jam was said to be best. Heck....still only one strand thru the eye.....I am just going to use the clinch knot and put a dab of super glue or UV Glue on it to harden it up a bit.

BTW my comment about my little 4'-6" Ultralite is that many places while driving offer water....but covered with trees and such....and the little ultralite will toss a lure out pretty good to check the waters.

Thank all of you for helping me out. I am satisfied with my rigging now. And thank you John for the step by step procedure.

jim

[tedshuck]

Okay, I will be the different one. I use a double Davey knot and have for a few years. It is very fast to tie, once you've practiced it some, and it is vey strong. I really like it because it is a very small knot and easier to get two of the knots at the eye of the point fly. If you don't tie the knot correctly, it will pull right out when you go to test it.

Ted

[JohnScott]

Jim -

A couple additional thoughts.

First, knot strength, not leader or tippet strength, is the weakest point in your rigging. ( Knot strength is typically expressed as a percentage of tippet strength - less than 100%. ) I have never heard of a knot that is actually stronger than the strength of the material being knotted. If I had, or if one exists, that is the knot I would be using.

Second, there are two material strengths to consider. First, there is tensile strength, and second, there is shear strength. Tensile strength is measured by when the material will fail when stretched. Shear strength is measured by when a material will fail when force is applied across that material ( from 90 degrees to the material ).

The strength of a leader or tippet in pounds refers to its tensile strength. The strength of a knot is measured in terms of a percentage of the tensile strength of the material being knotted. So the weakest point in your rigging is the knot.

I have never experienced a leader or tippet failing from the shear force at the tip ring or eye of the hook, and have never heard anyone speak about such a failure. Perhaps it does happen, but not to the extent that it has been even considered a possibility in discussions about rigging strength. The point being, why pass the leader or tippet throught the eye of the hook twice when doubling the shear strength will not in any way improve the tensile strength of a single strand of the material being knotted or improve the knot strength ??

John

[mcfish]

I know and like the Davey; but what is a double Davey? I'm guessing you leave a long tag at end of first Davey and then tie a second one? Wait, I Googled it and it is also called an improved Davey;which I know. Davy and improved Davy are strong, quick,easy and very small. But they cinch up tight, so best for small diameter tippet.

[Whitewolf]

Wow! Davey and Improved Davey very interesting.

thanks

[gqualls]

I would also recommend the improved/double Davy knot. Have used this knot with 6, 6.5, and 7x for the past year and really like it. Simple to tie, especially when it gets a bit colder. Granted I have not caught a lot of large fish while using this knot .... largest was 20-21 inches ... and I had not had a failure yet. There's also a video on you tube that shows how you can use a pair of hemostats that might make it easier (I believe Tim Flagler teaches this method). You are getting lots of good feedback --- good luck!

[Whitewolf]

I found the Tim Flager video of using plunger style hackle pliers to do the Davey and Improved/Double Davey knot....really simple. oh....on Trout Unlimited....
Thank you very much.

jim