Bear found scavenging on the remains of a dead man in the Great Smoky Mountains

[Marco]

And as for me, It's hard to fathom WHY anyone would be SO STUBBORN and NAIVE as to wager one's own and perhaps that of other's life on a statistic. While stalking the elusive trouts deep in the wilds of Wyoming etc, I do not trust my 44 mag or my skill with it alone so I have a LARGE canister of UDAP which I CARRY/HOLD in my left hand and the 44 mag or Glock 29 10mm open carry holster just to left of my belt buckle for easy right handed cross draw. In the bear country scenario,if it's anti-gun politics that drive "you", YOU'RE NUTS!. I do practice C.A.N.T.
I also wonder if "you" were a guide with 3 or 4 clients in your trust on a fishing expedition, would "you" in that scenario, also only protect them with bear spray?
Mark

PS: Also, Hap, curiosity compels me to ask, what is your choice of firearm and loads while plodding thru bear country ?

[Steve Molcsan]

anti-gun politics that drive "you", YOU'RE NUTS!

You got that right Mark ..

[hap]

... bear spray is highly effective when used properly and is much preferred over firearms by virtually all state and federal agencies as a matter of policy in dealing with bears.

It's been about ten years since Hap and I had quite the go around on this subject, and I have zero interest in rehashing that discussion which ended with Hap bowing out because further discussion would have to be "political", which I didn't think was necessary but wasn't worth pursuing because the ball was in his court at that point.

If you want good information on bear safety, go the the National Park Service website, or the websites of other federal agencies like the National Forest Service or U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or the State parks, fish and game services around the Western U. S.

As of ten years ago, all of those services advocated for use of bear spray over use of firearms, and nothing has changed at least as to the National Park Service when I was on their website this morning.

The choice is yours - spend the time and energy to thoroughly research the subject to become informed and be safe, or not.

Just saying.

John

I remember well our previous discussions on bear spray. After decades of experience and I would suggest, more direct experience with bears than all members of AOL combined, I have had multiple opportunities to deal with bears in just about every mode. I have stood guard with photographers with more than 100 brown bears in our immediate area. I have guided for them and hunted them myself extensively. I know many of the folks involved in the issue from many different angles.

As a thumbnail to the politics of the issue from both sides: there are many in the management side on both sides of the debate as to where the acceptable line should be drawn on killing bears and how. Currently the top managers in the majority are of the opinion every effort should be made to protect every possible bear. They are aware the average interaction should not involve killing the bear and the vast majority of charges are bluff. It would be hard to argue against the fact.

The other side sees the much smaller number where the bear will maul or kill the victim. They acknowledge bears will die that should not have died, quite a few of them.

At that point the politics and agendas come into play as to how best to deal with the situation. In AK, field personnel are typically issued bear spray and a rifle (some get shotguns) and get some training on both.

In my opinion based on decades of direct contact with many thousands of bears and the application of bear spray, I would not ever rely on spray.

[DaleW]

SMOKEY MOUNTAINS BEAR - Friday 9/11/2020


Rangers euthanized the bear. Authorities have not determined the man's cause of death and are continuing to investigate.

Jesse: One of my favorite spots to camp and trout fish is the Nantahala River in western NC. The campground is a NFS C/G called "Standing Indian", located west of Franklin, NC, (about 14 miles with another 3 miles off US-64). There are black bears aplenty in that area and they frequently "visit" campsites, usually during the night. Important to use the bear proof trash receptacles rather then keeping any trash campsite, and keep coolers off the picnic tables for the night and kept in the trunk of the car, (albeit there have been some known daytime "raiders" every once in awhile).

On my last visit there we had a favorite campsite on the out skirts of the C/G, and it had been a light sprinkling rain that afternoon. So we extended the little popup camper awning with a larger plastic tarp so it would shelter the C/G picnic table as well, where we could cook and eat, dry. Anyway, in the late afternoon we cooked dinner, ate same, washed the camp dishes right there at the table, removed all trash to the bear proof trash receptacles, put the cooler away, and decided to have an early evening after-dinner cup of tea. We were sitting at the table with our backs to the camper when all at once came this big black bear right into the campsite and headed right to our table, on the opposite side of the table. It took me a second (maybe) to comprehend what was going on (same for my buddy), and we stood up and yelled "get the hell out of here!" I suspect the bear did not see us until we stood up and yelled. Even at that, the bear turned and strolled away, in no big hurry, as if to tell us not to press our luck!

Now, we didn't report that incident to the campground/NSF folks simply because of the risk of them destroying the animal. I understand the NFS use to relocate nuisance bears to another part of national forest but have ceased to do so. Seems the NFS was taken to task by folks in the relocation area didn't appreciate the problem coming to them. I understand now they destroy the problem animal.

I figured this was a good place to tell a bear story!

[hap]

And as for me, It's hard to fathom WHY anyone would be SO STUBBORN and NAIVE as to wager one's own and perhaps that of other's life on a statistic. While stalking the elusive trouts deep in the wilds of Wyoming etc, I do not trust my 44 mag or my skill with it alone so I have a LARGE canister of UDAP which I CARRY/HOLD in my left hand and the 44 mag or Glock 29 10mm open carry holster just to left of my belt buckle for easy right handed cross draw. In the bear country scenario,if it's anti-gun politics that drive "you", YOU'RE NUTS!. I do practice C.A.N.T.
I also wonder if "you" were a guide with 3 or 4 clients in your trust on a fishing expedition, would "you" in that scenario, also only protect them with bear spray?
Mark

PS: Also, Hap, curiosity compels me to ask, what is your choice of firearm and loads while plodding thru bear country ?

If hunting, guiding, or guarding photographers a short barreled bolt action rifle with a very low power scope. I have used many from 30-06 to 375H&H AI. I currently carry a 30-06 usually. If fishing I carry a Taurus Ti 5-shot revolver in 44Spl. I have carried a large number of different makes, models and chamberings. The Taurus is so wonderfully light it is easy to ALWAYS have it with me.

[hap]

Forgot to add loads... for rifles I almost exclusively use Barnes solid copper X bullets. For most handguns I use hardcast lead bullets for reliable penetration. I use my own handloads exclusively.

[Marco]

Hey Hap ( love to say that),
Thanks for the response from where bears are as prolific as chipmunks are herebouts. I would trust your EXPERIENCE waayyy over an OPINION based on a STATISTIC. I
did just purchase a KKM 4.5" barrel for the G29 so I can also run hard cast stuff thru it. Unfortunately delivery is about 6 weeks out and I'm here in Mitchell SD on our way to Wyoming so I'll have to depend on the UDAP and some 200grain XTP's. ( and hope I bring both back home UNTOUCHED)
Long live the bears AND WEUNS!.

Mark
PS: BTW, the guide question was NOT directed toward you but for "those" who would carry perhaps a bag of honey glazed carrots to divert a bear's charge and thereby save the planet.

[Steve Molcsan]

carry perhaps a bag of honey glazed carrots to divert a bear's charge and thereby save the planet

Mark , That line cracks me up so much it Bears repeating...

Take care