Green Butt (egg sack) pattern. Using Kelly Galloup's Butch Caddis pattern

[Byron haugh]

We were discussing the colors of insect egg sacks (ova). Someone mentioned a caddis pattern which breaks the surface to swim below and deposit her eggs.

The basic Butch Caddis (w/o legs) was designed by Kelly Galloup to allow the fly to be pulled beneath the water and expected to return to the surface and float.

To achieve this, it has regular, fine tipped deer hair for the wing, above the under-wing of zelon; the hollow butts of that same deer hair as an additional over-wing; and a "bullet head" .....all to provide buoyancy.

I also added UV Pearl Ice Dub.

Apologies for some of the fly being out of focus!

[john52948]

Byron,

I used to tie something similar to the pattern shown, except I would use snowshoe rabbit for the body, head, and wing. I found that if I kinda slammed it into the water, the fly would sink below the water surface, and then slowly rise to the surface again. after a few fish it would get water logged and not float, but a quick coat of aquel would get it floating again.

[Byron haugh]

John,
It doesn't really show in the photo, but beneath the deer hair butt ends wing is the deer hair tips wing. I have tied this pattern before, but was having such good "luck" with the X-Caddis that I never tested it's continuing float ability after being pulled under to imitate the egg layers.

[whatfly]

Good tie but that "egg sack" could easily be confused for a shuck, so this could just as easily be a crippled pattern. Ultimately we never really know why the fish takes the fly, but that is half the fun of course.

[Byron haugh]

The green zelon was cut much shorter than a shuck would have been.
Again, Kelly designed it to be pulled under to represent the egg laying female with her ova.

I guess if the trout were confused and didn't notice it was a wrong colored shuck, that would make it a double-trouble pattern?

Being at rear of hook helps a bit with buoyancy

[whatfly]

Sigh. You missed the point. Yes, I understand why Kelly designed the fly the way he did, but does that mean the trout take it for the same reason? Does the color really matter in this case or is the crippled profile more important for a dry? What makes you think the trout will only take a fly with a shuck of the proper length? What makes you think the right color matters? Maybe the fly would work even better with a pink sack/shuck.

To me the more important question is does the fly work, and there are so many variables involved in that equation, tweaking one small factor, one that could easily be confounded by another (or two) in this case (i.e. sack v. shuck), to me anyway, is not going to "prove" anything. Your mileage will undoubtedly vary.

[Byron haugh]

Kelly says his mileage is very good.....sorry, I tend to think flies which work well imitate the features of the insect they were designed to imitate. Also, the fly was designed to mimic an adult egg laying female going under the surface as opposed to a cripple stuck in the meniscus. But, whatever anyone else thinks is fine.

[planettrout]

Byron,

Kelly did not design the Butch Caddis to represent a diving egg-layer. See here:

http://www.flyfisherman.com/fly-tying/butch-and-goober-caddis-patterns/

I like GLF's design:

https://nwflytyer.wordpress.com/2012...diving-caddis/

...notice it does not have an egg sac...

Scott P. does a version, with an egg sac, that has since gone the way of the dodo with the photobucket purge, but I did mange a capture:






PT/TB

[john52948]

Byron,

usually when I tie a pattern with an egg sack, I will use a small ball of dubbing for dry patterns, or one wrap of micro chenille for wet patterns. most of the bugs that I have observed on the river have a small ball shape of eggs attached to the rear of the abdomen. im not sure that the actual shape makes a big difference especially when you look at a lot of the classic patterns that used a wrap or two of floss or tying thread to represent the egg sac.

my thoughts are that whether the bug your trying to imitate is a dipper or a diver is much more important. if the bug is a diver, I don't worry to much about an egg sac on my dry pattern, usually I will switch to a soft hackle with an egg sac on it. if its a dipper, I will fish a dry with an egg sac. im not sure that this works for everybody, or that if its even correct, but it works for me.

[Byron haugh]

PT
If you watch his intro to this video, Kelly says it is designed to skate and be pulled under to represent the egg layer going Under to deposit her eggs.

https://youtu.be/A0U_TauQbrU

John,
My thought is that if you're imitating an egg layer with her egg sack, shouldn't your fly have an egg sack?