speaking of guaging hackle....

[LWilliams]

Has anyone noticed, or been troubled with, saddles that have two different sized hackle? Either it changes mid-stem, or more commonly one side of the stem is smaller than the other? The latter is OK provided you bent the stem for the long side and selected accordingly. The former just baffles me. I've selected saddles that were equal at the tips and base but sometimes as much a 2-sizes bigger in the middle.

I've seen it with regularity on both Whiting and Metz saddles and it really bugs me (pun intended)!

Common occurance, with dry fly cape hackle, more prevalent with the saddles. Thou shall not "***/U/Me"!


~ Parnelli

"I think the birds, do it out of spite!"




[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite, to correct a misstatement by the omission of a critical word. (edited 22 March 2005).]



[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite (edited 22 March 2005).]

Loren,

Yes, and this characteristic is also in the most expensiove saddles.

Your suggestion, "The latter is OK provided you bent the stem for the long side and selected accordingly", doesn't really work and I'll tell you why. Using a saddle feather with 2 sizes along the stem will result in a lot of bulk from shorter barbs. The fly will also be heavier and wick more water.

This is a weakness that people should consider and look for when they buy saddles. Avoid buying any saddle with this characteristic, even if it's from Whiting.

Allan

A

[Mike Murgida]

Does this happen with mainly saddles or capes too? Also what grade or brand does this most happen too?

------------------
"GET THE DRIFT?"

[LWilliams]

Allan,

Let's use a stem that has #14 on one side and #16 on the other for an example. I am tying #14's and bend the stem, by luck, to expose the #14's while the #16's lay down and hide themselves.

How would the shorter barbs build bulk or wick water anymore than the #14's that were supposed to be there?

Loren, Let's go with your example.

By description, if one side is shorter and you want a specific number of even barb tips, you will have to make twice as many wraps then you would if you used a hackle with barbs of even length on both sides. Twice the number of wraps = more weight and bulkier. No?

Allan

[eaustin]

Yeah Loren, I see it constantly. I work around it easily enough. That nature, just not as natural as it should be sometimes.
Eric

[LWilliams]

Allan,

Ok, I see your avenue of approach.

With saddles, and long neck hackles, on single-colored flies I tie in at the front and wrap back then up again...whatever I get, I get. These days there are so many barbs I use less wraps than yesteryear. I'm not sure I am using any more wraps than I would have if they were even. I'll haev to pay attention next time....I'm on nymphs now and will be for a few weeks.

The barb density these days is so high that I cannot say that I can see the smaller barbs.

Where it bugs me is when I pull a bunch of #16's that end up being #14's. I can hide the #16's on a #14 but not the other way around.

Mike: I find it happens far more often with saddles. Since Whiting has the market there they are what I sue almost exclusively. But the grizz and brown Metz patches I have exhibit the same issues.

I know on all my Whiting 100's the hackle is the same size all the way from the butt to the tip. But on most odf my saddles there is a variation but not a full size. I don't sell flies so I could care less.

[Jim Slattery]

Hi Loren, I know exactly what you mean.

With the varing side to side and widening or shortening of the hackle size as you use the feather, I find that saddle hackle is really suited for parachutes, also the "stubby" looking barbles seem more suited to the parachute as well. IMNSHO . LOL
To me neck hackle has a longer taper than saddle hackle, in each barble. So neck hackle looks better, to my eye, on standard tied dry flies. Plus neck hackle rarely has that side to side issue.
Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Slattery (edited 21 March 2005).]