Putting your name on somebody else's pattern?

[smij]

*Heads up, post may contain "negativity"*

This has been bugging me for a few years. If you make a change to an existing pattern, does that give you the right to attach your name to fly?

I see one touted all the time, and it bugs me. I'd like to hear your opinions on this.

[Uncle Jesse]

If it were my original design and someone else was copying it with a minor change and it was costing me money, then it would be an issue. But, Al Toth's Elk Hair Caddis was tied a specific way, if you add or delete a part of the fly, it is no longer Al Toth, It's Joe Blow's Elk Hair Caddis. Copyrighting Is not that expensive, especially if you did several at the same time.

[NJTroutbum]

A lot of variables there. Most patterns came from another in some way shape or form, either by technique, materials, reference or just plain inspiration. That includes most "originals". You also have intent or knowledge of an earlier pattern.

Today, a lot of information is readily available. But 10-20 years ago the internet wasn't what it is now. So you often had regional patterns that would be very similar, but the parties knew nothing of each other.

Then you have the question of...does the alteration or change make a significant change to the trigger of a given pattern? If it does, should it then be the "Improved Blah-de-Blah"?...remain "Joe Schmucks Blah-de-Blah"?...Or can it then be renamed "Heimy Goobsteins Big Blah-dascious"?

But, you kicked the can over...which ones bug you?

[ScottP]

If I make a change to a pattern, I'd call it a variation but certainly wouldn't put my name on it. If I radically alter one, I'd make sure to acknowledge where the inspiration came from.

Regards,
Scott

[maodiver]

I honestly think it's hubris to attach one's name to any fly. Why you gotta pat yourself backwards like that? The earlier "modern" flies, Elk Hair Caddis, Adams, etc., didn't seem to need them. Why now? If it's a good fly, and it already has a unique name, i.e. Stimulator, why call it the Kauffman's Stimulator, when it is just a modified Improved Sofa Pillow?

[NJTroutbum]

Well, now that is a fairly inaccurate statement. Not your opinion of applying Hubris…that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But fly tyers have been applying their names and identifying themselves with patterns since as far as I can remember. Does Wulff ring a bell?....Clouser?....Griffiths?....Gordon?

I have about 150 personal patterns over the years. Many inspired by others and I try to name them accordingly whenever that was my intent. I believe I’ve applied my identification to 3? Wouldn't apologize to anybody for them.

[billhouk]

I agree with Scott. Changing a pattern or substituting a material does not constitute a new fly. It is a variation. So if you want to call it a "Joe Blow's Variation of some fly pattern" I guess that's ok if you need the reinforcement.

[redietz]

Well, now that is a fairly inaccurate statement. Not your opinion of applying Hubris…that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But fly tyers have been applying their names and identifying themselves with patterns since as far as I can remember. Does Wulff ring a bell?....Clouser?....Griffiths?....Gordon?

To be strictly accurate, most of those weren't named by the tyers themselves, but my somebody else. I believe, for example it was Lefty Kreh who renamed the Deep Minnow the "Clouser Minnow". Griffith didn't invent the fly named after him, nor did he name it. He just used it a lot.

Still, your point is valid, and goes back even further. Canon Greenwell may not have suggested "Greenwell's Glory" but he heartily concurred when someone else did. I think that Wickham actually did name his Fancy. Naming flies after people has a long and honorable history.

Remember Dan Cahill.

[FishnDave]

I agree. As an example, there's a bajillion (+/-) Woolly Bugger variants. Some have names attached to them, despite being, IMO, a straight up plain Woolly Bugger.

On the other hand, I've been using a pattern for bass lately that I (think I) designed. It isn't a complicated design, so I wouldn't be surprised if others have done it....but I haven't seen a pattern like it and I don't know what else to call it, so I named it after me. Sort of tongue-in-cheek, but I needed a way to talk about it with my fishing buddies, rather than always trying to describe it.

[Silver Creek]

What is a name?

It is a way to identify a specific item, as different from another item.

For example, a Royal Wulff. We all know the pattern and the name indicates a very specific pattern. How about noted fly tier and author Charles Meek's Patriot. Instead of describing it as a Royal Wulff tied with red crystal flash for the peacock herl and brown hackle for the tail, it is a lot simpler to say Patriot.

So did author Charles Meek (Fishing Small Streams With a Fly Rod, Meeting and Fishing the Hatches, 101 Innovative Fly-Tying Tips, Fishing Tandem Flies, Fishing Limestone Streams, The Hatches Made Simple, Great Rivers: Great Hatches, Mid-Atlantic Trout Streams and Their Hatches, Pennsylvania Trout Streams & Hatches) steal a pattern?

http://charlesmeck.com/a20000600.html





There are a lot of very famous flies that are modifications of other flies. What is the Caucci and Natasi's Compardun but a version of Fran Better's Haystack and the Craig Mathews and John Juracek's Sparkle Dun but a version of the Comparadun? So 4 famous fly tiers built thier signature fly on Fran Better's Haystack. Who am I to decide if the Comparadun or the Saprkle Dun was enouogh of a change to deserve its own name?