Proliferation of synthetics

[Ray Kunz]

There are so many varieties of synthetic materials today that a guy marketing his "brand" will try to impress you that his stuff is unique when it is really close to being identical to many others. I realize that this is legitimate business but really burdens us as amateur tiers. It's hard to tell the difference between EP fibers and Congo Hair to justify a 3 to 1 cost difference. It's also tough to tell the difference between flies tied with Estaz and Cactus Chenille.
If we can't tell the difference, I question whether the fish can. Does anyone else agree?
What I'd like to see in the future is a forum devoted to tying flies in traditional manners, using historically available materials as would have been used when fly fishing was first being developed in the Catskills. (Hackles in those days were so poor, by todays standards, that two feathers were needed to tie one fly.) Instead of calling this "Minimalist Tying" I'd like to call it "Historical Tying" or Classical Tying". Not to be confused with "Hysterical Tying". Maybe I could even find a use for my half-century old Metz necks.

[Jayatwork]

You might be interested in http://www.classicflytying.com

[ScottP]

What I'd like to see in the future is a forum devoted to tying flies in traditional manners, using historically available materials as would have been used when fly fishing was first being developed in the Catskills.

Ray,

Check this site; may be what you're interested in:
http://forums.catskillflies.com/inde...m/4-fly-tying/

Some beautiful flies come from there and are an important part of our flyfishing heritage.
Having said that, I do a majority of my fishing out west in some pretty rough water and a lot of the dries I attempted to tie in the "Catskill Method" ended up being very pretty wet flies in the heavier flows (could be that I wasn't tying them properly). Many of those synthetic materials - foam, polypropylene yarn, synthetic fibers greatly improve floatation for my flies. Can the fish tell the difference in the materials? I don't know, but if I can see it, I can fish it better. Just my 1/50 of a dollar.

Regards,
Scott

[NJTroutbum]

I have never really bought into most of the synthetic materials over the years. Bead-heads, Ice-dub and limited patterns with foam (2-3). But aside from that, it's rabbit, beaver hackle and hair.

[AlanB]

...as would have been used when fly fishing was first being developed in the Catskills.

I think you'll find the history of fly fishing goes back just a little further than that, about 2000 years further.

However, I do know what you mean about the proliferation of synthetics. There is little or no difference between many of them. Very few if any are originally fly tying materials. It is a case of finding something useful and then marketing it as a fly tying material. Famously the stuffing of a pillow turned into SLF Dubbing. A friend, Barry Ord Clark, of mine wrote a book on what many of these materials really are. International Guide to Fly-Tying Materials, much to the chagrin of the fly tying materials retailers.

If you want to see traditional flies you will not get more traditional than this. The Greenwell's Glory (Wet and dry) tied using original materials and a hackle from a home processed cape off domestic fowl.
Pictures_0006.jpgPictures_0007.jpgPictures_0009.jpg
The cape may look black but is in fact a dark coch-y-bonddhu.

Cheers,
A.

[Ray Kunz]

Thanks you guys for the websites. To AlanB: 1. I accept your 2000 year comment but I should have noted that the greatest development "in the U.S.A." started in the Catskills. 2. Is the material book you refer to available? 3. I also have a old, unused
Coch-y-bondhu cape of Asian origin that is so nice that I only take it out to pet it once in a while. To ScottP: In the mountainous areas of the east we also have some heavier water which the Wulff series of heavily hackled flies tries to address. And they do work. Also, have you ever tried a fully dressed "Usual" of Fran Betters origin? It's 100% snowshoe hare's foot hair.

[whatfly]

Could not disagree more strongly. Choice is always better than a lack there of, and as others have pointed out, I think you are over simplifying the history of fly tying. Nobody can force modern tiers to use any new materials, and substitution is always an option, no matter what some commercial tier might insist.

And with regards to "historically available materials" do you mean like Bustad, Condor, Eagle, Heron, or Stork? How about the original dubbing for Tup's Indispensable? Chadwicks 477 perhaps? Not all examples of materials used by Catskill tiers per se, but illustrative examples nevertheless.

Seems to me if you think the debates about the different materials are unique to today's tiers, I think you do not fully appreciate what an opinionated and picky bunch fly tiers actually are.

P.S. If you have no use for your 'old' Metz capes, just post. I'm sure you'll find no shortage of volunteers to take them off your hands.

[Tig]

The reason people use synthetics today (IMHO) is because we have them. I would imagine if the 'originators' of many of the traditional patterns had synthetics they would have used some of them.

[lastchance]

The reason people use synthetics today (IMHO) is because we have them. I would imagine if the 'originators' of many of the traditional patterns had synthetics they would have used some of them.

Agree. As a culture we have always pursued improvement.

[NJTroutbum]

I don't see any material as a bad thing. But I am a reluctant convert.

I like working with the natural materials more, and I'm addicted to hackle. If I see a neck in a shade I can use, and one that I don't have already.....I will eat, drink and sleep nothing but that hackle until I find a way to get it. It's sad really. LOL But I'm also a realist. ice-dub works. Can't deny it. Not a real fan of foam because I don't care for working with it. But it keeps floating...hard to ignore. However.....a hackled fly? Hard to beat. I still prefer shellaced turkey and pheasant tail over plastic shelback though. And gave away all my micro-fibbet tailing years ago, which was replaced by hackle fibers.

Like Whatfly said....we are an opinionated and picky bunch.