Educate me

[Ray Kunz]

I've fly fished for trout for years but always spincast or used plug in warnwater. Now I notice that when flytiers discuss their patterns, in my estimation, they really suggest overly large hook sizes for panfish.
I don't understand. I've caught 12 inch Crappies and, as I recall, their mouths weren't any larger than a trout. What am I missing? Never too old to learn.

[ScottP]

Ray,

Maybe to keep the real little ones off the hook, although I've had 4" bluegills go after a Gurgler tied on a #6 Mustad 3366.

Regards,
Scott

[Byron haugh]

In all fishing, we try to fairly closely imitate the fishes' food item, right?

If you are imitating an insect which is tiny (say size20), you tie the fly on a size 20 hook.
If you're imitating a giant stonefly, you might use a size 6 hook to achieve a size similar to the insect 's size.

Fish have mouths which open large enough to eat fairly large sized food items.
The size of the fly is determined by the size of the food item the fisher is trying to imitate....

[redietz]

I've caught 12 inch Crappies and, as I recall, their mouths weren't any larger than a trout.

You're probably not recalling very well. Crappie most eat baitfish, and have a fairly large mouth. 50 years ago when they were my primary target, I'd use about a size 6 streamer.

[Buddy Sanders]

Ray,

For their length, crappie have rather large mouths when opened. Crappie are primarily fish eaters, and they can easily take in prey up to around four inches long, although they tend to prefer smaller food. Depending on the size of the fish where you are, I'd use hooks in the 8 to 4 ranges with baitfish imitating flies around 1 1/2 to 3 inches long.

Bluegill have smallish mouths, and eat just about anything they can. I've used tiny size 16 nymphs up to size four poppers for them, with 12 to 8 hooks being about average depending on the fly.

In my opinion, most trout fly fishermen use flies that are too small when they try to transition to warm water fishing. They also tend to get way too caught up in the whole 'match the forage base' thing. Bass, bluegills, and crappie are not trout. They are instinctually more aggressive and are much more opportunistic feeders. Unlike trout, warm water species in a healthy water system have no problem finding food. They are seldom even remotely selective. Most times you will catch more fish by offering something that doesn't closely resemble what they are finding for food in their environment. 'Triggering' an aggressive or instinctual strike is much more effective than trying to 'feed' them.

YMMV

Buddy

[FishnDave]

The seeming ideal hook size for bluegills flies is ~ #10. One size larger or smaller than that would be really good as well. I've caught 'em on much bigger, but at lower percentages. This general guideline will work for most sunfish species like Redears, Pumpkinseeds, Green Sunfish, etc. Having the hook within the last 1/2" of the fly seems important for bluegills, if the tail of the fly is too long, you'll miss many more strikes.

For crappies, the flies I use are usually 1.25"-2" long. Crappies can certainly fit larger flies in their mouths, but they seem to eat the smaller flies like candy. Again...usually #10-#6 hooks. I've caught crappies up to 14.5" on 1/80th oz microjigs fish under an indicator.