Hook designations
W
hat Is the consensus concerning the proliferation of names for some hook shapes? To me hooks called; emerger, scud, pupa, midge and larva all seem to have the same general shape. Are these names simply a ploy to get us to buy more hooks? Just color me cheap. Thanks.
Scud hooks, to me, are something like a Dai Riki 135 - curved shank, down eye, heavy wire; for the most part, these hooks are for flies I want to sink. For most emergers, I like the DR 125 - slightly curved shank, straight eye, fine wire; I also like to use these on very small dries #20 and smaller, to get the extra gap width.
Regards,
Scott
Ray it's like women's clothing sizes. They exist mostly to promote more sales and confuse men.
Want to hear God laugh? Tell him Your plans!!!
What does someone in a design or sales office, who may or may not fish, know about what kind of hook I want to use for what kind of fly? Then why should I let him tell me? Ignore it.
The hook makers are missing out on what would be a simple system for producing a range of hooks. To the point where the hooks offered by most makers are just a hodgepodge of sizes and shapes. 99% Of all the flies I tie could be covered with a simple system. Three gauges of wire. Light, Medium and heavy. First design the standard straight shank hook. Then do it in 2x, 4x, and 6x long shank, 2x and 4x short. That's 18 hook variations per size.
Then the harder part is curved shank hooks. Someone once said to me "How do you measure a curved hook shank in a way that relates to consistant sizing with straight shank hooks?" Well it isn't all that difficult. What you need is a piece of graph paper. Draw two lines (X-X & Y-Y axis for those of a mathematical bent). Put a pin in the paper at the point the lines cross (Origin). Hook the hook around the pin so the point the touches the X line. Find the horizontal line that crosses the hook shank behind the eye. Count the squares from behind the eye to where the hook shank crosses that line. Then count up to the top of the bend from the line. This gives you shank length and displacement, the gap is from that line to the point.
Now you have a system to compare the size of curved hooks to straight hooks. Standard, short and long in each gauge and you have a more complete range of hooks than any maker provides. It will also be more consistent in sizing, and less insulting in description.
Unfortunately, organising fly fishermen is like herding cats. Otherwise we could make a start by insisting that all hook packages carry that sizing information. Then we would have a standard by which to compare hooks from different makers. It is simple we just need to not buy hooks that don't have this standard sizing information. Most makers don't even have consistent sizing across their own range of hooks. Thats not asking anyone to change the hooks, just to measure them in a standard way.
That leads to another question. Why would I trust someone, who can't even consistently size the hooks they produce, to tell me what to use them for?
Cheers,
A.
There is no consensus, and it's not a conspiracy.
No conspiracy, just a total lack of any joined up thinking, even common sense.
Cheers,
A.
But, it IS working....
It Just Doesn't Matter....
No Buddy, it's not. Try finding an alternative hook. Thats something I have to do frequently, and with no standard way to compare them it is near impossible. Most of my hooks have to be bought on line, so I can't take the one I have to compare it to the ones I need to buy. (I'm too remote from any shop with a good range). Several times I have ended up with the wrong hooks and had to take the cost as a hit on that order of flies. I may, or may not, get to use them later.
Cheers,
A.
Alan,
Didn't mean it was working for us.
It's certainly working for the hook makers. If it wasn't, which would mean they were having trouble selling hooks, then they'd change it. Until that happens, the marketers of fly tying hooks will continue doing things the way they always have.
I don't see a change coming in the future. No one in the industry WANTS to make it simpler. To them, the concept of 'alternative hook' means they lose business. Odd sizings and confusing nomenclature mean you need to buy their particular hook to get what you want.
Or, you can do what I do and buy a few standard hooks in various sizes and lengths and invest in a good pair of round nosed pliers....
Buddy
Its more of a problem than you might think. Behind me I have about 100k hooks in stock, yet today I had to buy two odd packs. Pliers are ok but how do you make the shanks longer? I have had customers that want a specific hook, but are not willing to pay the extra. My standard salmon hooks cost me 0.10ea. Salar hooks cost me 0.85ea. Therefore, I charge 0.75 more for the same fly tied on a Salar. Usually, when the customer objects, I say I'll take the 0.10 off the price and you send me the hooks.
I dread the orders that want a fly and say "...but can you tie them on...?"
Does confusion really serve the industry? I really wonder how many factories there really are that make hooks. Many are just repackaged. I suppose the confusion covers that up. If I have a good maker that supplies me I would tend towards their equivalent. It would generate as much custom as the confusion stops them loosing, perhaps more.
Just to show how stupid the designations are some of the hooks I bought today are called "Buzzer" hooks, for tying midge pupa on. I've got them for soldier beetles!
Cheers,
A.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote