Questions/Concerns About Harvey Leader Formulas

[WarrenP]

Silver Creek,

Thanks for the reply and the explanation and now I understand why you stressed using the material you did and appreciate your reply.

[Chuck441]

Silver- Thanks for all your input. Much appreciated. FYI- I have it on good authority the clear Maxima is identical to Chameleon, but is rather hard to find these days. Green is, as you say, more limp. Personally, I think Maxima gets short shrift among fly fishers. As long as you mike the material, and not believe the labeling, it's darn good stuff. ...Chuck

[randyflycaster]

What about using Stren Easy Cast mono for butt leader material?

Randy

[lastchance]

I make all of my nymphing leaders with Stren. I don't know why you couldn't use it for dry fly leaders. It's all the same stuff packaged under different names.

[mickalo]

I tend to agree with you lastchance. When I came across these "Uni-Body" leaders a while ago, by Gary Borger I did get some of the Maxiam Clear to try it out. Then I used Stern and the cheapy stuff like Zebco mono and I really didn't notice any significance difference as far how the leader performed or breakage problems. Now granted I fish for bass and panfish here, no trout waters, so the leader construction may not need to be as critical as say setting up dry leaders for spooky trout. I usually throw streamers, leeches and top water poppers. Gary son Jason Borger has a nice article on leaders here http://fishfliesandwater.com/gear-ri...ers-for-trout/ with some excellent leader setups. I did contact him a while back to see what he used compared to his Dad's Uni-Body leader. He said he's used Orvis, Rio and Cortland leader material also with good success.

So I guess it comes down to personal preferences, where and what your fishing for, and other various conditions. But I've been using this Uni-Body leader basic construction for allot of leaders then varying the tippet(s) length and sizes. I use mainly 5 & 6wt WF lines & 8.5' and 9.0' rods.

Just my $0.02 cents worth

Mike

[Streamcaster]

Five feet of brown Cameleon and 3 feet of clear tippet . . . ? Don't you feel the brown cameleon would put the fish off? And yes, I DO use it, but not that close to the fly. I use it because, to my senses, the cameleon is limper than regular clear Maxima, and George Harvey stressed a limpish, flexible leader. Other voices have said that the butt should approximate the tip of the line in flexibility. I think a .015 cameleon does that with a 5 wt fly line

Fish on!
Peter

[Silver Creek]

Five feet of brown Cameleon and 3 feet of clear tippet . . . ? Don't you feel the brown cameleon would put the fish off? And yes, I DO use it, but not that close to the fly. I use it because, to my senses, the cameleon is limper than regular clear Maxima, and George Harvey stressed a limpish, flexible leader. Other voices have said that the butt should approximate the tip of the line in flexibility. I think a .015 cameleon does that with a 5 wt fly line

Fish on!
Peter

There are two main characteristics you need to match to get a smooth transmission of energy and forward momentum down a leader. One is mass which is a component of both kinetic energy and momentum. The other is stiffness/flexibility. If a .015" piece of chameleon resists bending similar to then tip of a 5 wt fly line, it certainly is not close to the mass density of the fly line.

For a tubular shape tied to a tubular shape (fly line to leader butt) we can think of mass as linear mass density - the mass of identical lengths of material, fly line vs butt section of leader. Although the average mass per volume of the fly line is not identical to the average mass per volume of Maxima, for this example let us assume that they are. When we make that assumption, we can compare the relative mass density of the fly line tip to the leader butt by comparing the cross sectional radius of the fly tine tip to the leader butt.

The diameter of the tip of a 5 wt fly line should be about .022" and you said you wanted to match that to .015" Chameleon. The cross sectional area of a circle is π r2. So the ratio of the two areas is

(11)(11)/(7.5)(7.5) = 121/56.25 = 2.15

What this means is that the fly line tip has 2.15 times the mass as the leader butt, and although you have matched the stiffness, you have not come close to matching the density. If the goal is a step down the linear mass at the junction of the fly line to a leader butt, you have down that. My opinion is that the leader butt should more closely match the diameter of the fly line tip so that the leader butt mass is more closely matched to the fly line. If a 50% step down in mass occurred, the forward velocity of the leader butt would have to double to maintain momentum.

I personally nail knot a short section of 25 lb. (.020") section of Maxima Chameleon to the end of my fly line with a perfection loop at the end and then connect the leader butt with a loop to loop connection. I think you will find that the commercial leaders have a butt section that is thicker than .015" because they are also designed to match the diameter of the fly line tip.

[Byron haugh]

Silver,
Very interesting.
What are your thoughts about attaching a braided thread leader directly to the fly line?

[NJTroutbum]

For years I tied a 3-stage Maxima Chameleon tippet for most all of my nymphing, (18"-10#, 30" - 6#, Micro swivel to 36" - 2#). I still use Chameleon for my bass poppers. The stuff is tough.

[Chuck441]

"The diameter of the tip of a 5 wt fly line should be about .022"

Silver, maybe it's because I haven't bought a 5-wt. line in a few years, but I've never had one mic nearly that small. They all seem to be .030 or larger. So, I just adjust my leader butt diameter accordingly- and .020 seems to match the flexibility, and turns the leader over pretty well. .022 seems to hinge.

"I use it because, to my senses, the cameleon is limper than regular clear Maxima"

According to my contact with the distributor several years ago, Ultragreen is the limper mono, while Clear is identical to Chameleon w/o the dark dye.

Chuck