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Thread: Winged Wets.......design based on misunderstanding?

  1. #1
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    Default Winged Wets.......design based on misunderstanding?

    Recently, I was re-reading some noted authors on sub-surface flies, their designs, and the reasoning behind their designs.

    I have never believed in winged wets. Never understood the reason for their design.

    I have not found any insect who's wings came completely out of the shuck before reaching the surface.

    I have seen innumerable dead insects floating on the water surface - not below the surface.

    I have seen dead spinners and I have seen many, many cripples IN the surface film......none sunken with wings over their backs.

    I found a piece written be Ed Zern. He maintains that winged wets were based on the incorrect belief that insects got blown down to the water surface, died, and sunk.......or they were cripples and died and then drowned.

    I believe some earlier fly designs were based on just bad understanding of the lifestyle of insects and their behavior.

    Your thoughts?
    Last edited by Byron haugh; 06-12-2014 at 03:59 AM.

  2. #2
    AlanB Guest

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    Interesting Byron,

    Some points you make I can address.

    Insect that fully emerges sub surface, yellow may dun. The adult appears fully formed on the surface and almost immediately takes to the wing. This behaviour makes it one of the hardest insects to imitate. It hatches about now, and I've had some very frustrating times trying to find an imitation that works.

    Insects that are blown onto the water and become "awash" In a few days the hawthorn and heather flies will begin to appear (if they haven't already) Last year I had a couple of hours on L. Lannsaidh in my float tube. I was being hit by heather flies being blown onto the water, something of a clue as to what is going on. I set up three imitations of these on my leader. The top fly being a deer hair dry the other two wets. No fish came to the dry. Twenty three fell to the wets.

    Similarly, on the R. Ribble one evening. There was a large mixed hatch going on in the first pool I came to had rises everywhere. I couldn't catch. I walked upstream to find a huge spinner fall 100 yards upstream. Walked back to the first pool and put a spinner over the fish. Then I realised these were not rising, but bulging fish. They wouldn't come to the dry spinner. Sink it, and it was fish after fish.

    I know both those are anecdotal evidence, but if the fish never saw these flies sub surface, why would they prefer the artificial presented in that way?

    There are examples of flies that evolved into other flies that show us something relevant. I'm thinking of the likes of William's Favourite, add a tail of GP tippet and you have the Black Pennel, further add a wing and you have the Blae and Black. All flies you will find in my fly box. Some days the fish will take the William's Favourite other times the Black Pennel, still other times the Blae and Black is preferred. If the wing is a mistake why does adding it on some days mean you catch, when without it you don't? It must be adding something to the pattern.

    Add to that the places where these patterns developed are not the richest of habitats for fish. Therefore, a lot of the patterns are based on attraction rather than imitation, and many times somewhere in between. It is perhaps a hard thing to say that they are a result of a mistake in understanding insect behaviour. Rather it seems that the mistake, if there is one, is in understanding what these flies are intended for, and how they work.

    Good point there Byron, got me scratching me 'ed!

    Cheers,
    A.

  3. #3
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    Byron,

    It is interesting how 2 people can have different thoughts about any subject. I do not have the "insect knowledge" either one of you have and probably never will due to not wanting to devote that much time to studing them. All I have are "thoughts" and you did ask for any thoughts so here is a thought I had. I have been a bystander listening to two people having a heavy discussion on a subject to the point of one of them becoming upset because the other person did not agree with them and I have seen this happen here on FAOL and at fly fishing club meetings. I do not feel either one of you will reach this point because you both have knowledge on this subject. My thought is could there be a difference between what the insects do on a pond or lake due to the depth of the water and no movement as compared to the same insects in a river with moving current? After all, there are flies that are tied for pond/lake fish that will not work as well on river fish and vise versa. Just a thought and if you feel I am full of crapola, be kind to me when you tell me so!
    Warren
    Fly fishing and fly tying are two things that I do, and when I am doing them, they are the only 2 things I think about. They clear my mind.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron haugh View Post

    I have never believed in winged wets.

    Your thoughts?
    It only matters what the fish believe.
    To the simpleton, proof does not matter once emotion takes hold of an issue.

  5. #5
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    I don't have the reference but Ak Best wrote of netting emerging green drakes 2 inches off the bottom with wings out. Also with the green drakes some people fish a winged dead cripple green drake after the emergence and do very well. I don't have any personal experience in this

  6. #6
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    Some species of Caddis lay there eggs by diving or crawling below the surface. This probably didn't have anything to do with the development of the wet fly, but imitating a diving Caddis might be a very good use for them.

    Drowned flies might be another application. I know I've caught quite a few fish on a salmonfly imitation that has sunk.

  7. #7
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    Jay,
    You are right about the female caddis. I meant to say that my post referenced mayflies. And, "winged Wets" are generally tied to imitate mayflies - not caddis.
    But, even with a diving female caddis, when dead, they float.
    I am also not talking about any insect in the film, but rather at the location one would be fishing a " winged wet" in the water column.
    Thanks for pointing that out.
    Last edited by Byron haugh; 06-12-2014 at 06:50 PM.

  8. #8

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    I'll say this a winged Quill Gordon wet was a very effective fly for me. The QG exits their shuck on the on the bottom.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by narcodog View Post
    I'll say this a winged Quill Gordon wet was a very effective fly for me. The QG exits their shuck on the on the bottom.
    Narc,
    You are right. "Some" of the Eporus eclode before arriving at the surface, but "most" do not.
    Please see this:
    http://www.troutnut.com/hatch/5/Mayf...WOs/index3.php

    Warren,
    You are right. Minds are rarely changed, but I think even the discussions lead to clarifications on certain subjects.
    I do think challenging our thinking is a good thing.
    Last edited by Byron haugh; 06-12-2014 at 05:12 PM.

  10. #10
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    Those pictures are amazing. Explains why Flick went with a pinkish cast on the light hendrickson

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