Royal Wulff floating on its tippy toes

[oldster]

Gentlemen, I've fished a lot of Catskill type drys and in looking at them on the water, they appeared to me to float high at first and as they got wetter the would float like a thorax pattern. I never got close enough enough to see exactly how they were floating This was in my younger years when my eyes were better. After reading all you guys input i decide to conduct an experiment. This morning i broke out some of my Lt Cahills, size 14 tied in my version of the Catskill style. I dropped them in a clear jar full of water. They floated with the body clear of the water. They did not float as high as the Dan Bailey photo, most of the tail was flat on the water, probably not stiff enough but they sat up on their hackles supporting the body clear of the water. The hook dented the water but did not penetrate it. I realize that this was not a very scientific test. The water was perfectly flat and the flies were dropped from a couple of inches. To be truthful, I was a little surprised. This leads me to believe that they will float as described by Art Flick but not for long.

[Byron haugh]

Oldster,
When you say "Catskill Style", how do you define that?
What proportions do you use in tying these?
Thanks

[Steven]

If I remember correctly Flick argued with Cross about the setting of the tail. The Cross tail was upswept and Flick believed that would make it impossible for the fly to land correctly (e.g. on its tippy-toes). I also find it implausilbe that a size 12 dry would land as Flick envisioned with basically only 5 1/2 wraps of hackle and most certainly not after the first cast.

I think Catskill's and modern upwings do ride higher than parachutes, Comparaduns etc. The body of a Catskill is supported on top of the meniscus by the horizontal hackles and the hackles pointed slightly downards. With a parachute, the body is in the meniscus with the hackle resting on top of the meniscus. I guess Comparaduns could go either way based on the degree of wingspread.

[oldster]

Byron, I use shank length tail and wing, 11/4 to 11/2 hackle. This should yield a wing slightly longer than the hackle. Maybe some of the old tiers did use slightly different proportions. Good hackles were scarce in those days. It took two hackles to hackle a fly as you know. Hook length proportions and 11/2 gape hackles result in a larger fly. Probally turning my 14 into a 12. What proportions do you use and why?

Steven Mike and others, Thank you for your input. I value your opinions and comments and have learned from this discussions. As long as we all catch fish with our creations we should be happy.
Regards, Oldster

[Joe Billingsley]

As long as we all catch fish with our creations we should be happy.
Regards, Oldster

Exactly. Well said.

Joe

[Byron haugh]

Oldster,
I also use shank length for tail and wings. I select hackle which is approximately 75% of wing height.
I don't use many divided upright winged flies anymore. I have found the cripple patterns, to include the Sparkle Dun, work better.

[oldster]

Byron, I always admire your flies. Mine have always looked like cripples! Regards