Do we fishermen/fly tiers rely too much on horizontal views of our flies?

[Byron haugh]

A fishing friend (and many others) suggest, for example, that the X-Caddis can be taken as much for a mayfly as a caddis fly.

I think, to the extent this happens, the trout are taking the fly as a caddis even though there may not be caddis on the water. Caddis are somewhat ubiquitous during most of the mayfly hatching season.

I think that while an X-Caddis, dressed like a particular mayfly, may look to us a bit like a mayfly............





But, I think the telltale tent-like appearance from the trout's view pretty much identify it as a caddis pattern to the trout.





I know many, including my fishing friend will disagree, it is my belief. If I remember to do so, I will try to test this out this June/July. Problem is, when I am fishing to a mayfly hatch, I get too excited to start experimenting..........Know what I mean?

[Hans Weilenmann]

The CDC&Elk has been my most successful mayfly imitation for the past twenty years

Cheers,
Hans W

[Tig]

I think the best we can say conclusively is that the trout takes it for food. Even during selective feeding on hatches they will take the odd item that doesn't look like anything else on the water (IMHO). Having said that I think your fly would make a great mayfly substitute.

[Steven]

ut, I think the telltale tent-like appearance from the trout's view pretty much identify it as a caddis pattern to the trout.

Obviously, until a Trout learns English, nobody will know for sure....but.....

Is the look of the X-Caddis from below that much different from that of the Harrop Hair Wing Dun?
Do the trout even get that view? Don't they have to lead the fly (like a QB leading a wide receiver) in order to intercept it?

[Byron haugh]

Obviously, until a Trout learns English, nobody will know for sure....but.....

Is the look of the X-Caddis from below that much different from that of the Harrop Hair Wing Dun?
Do the trout even get that view? Don't they have to lead the fly (like a QB leading a wide receiver) in order to intercept it?

Steven, That is sort of my argument. All studies (that I am aware of) of what a trout sees in the water agree that they first sight wing tips of an insect or a fly coming into their "window" of vision. Then, they see the impression in the meniscus on the water of the body/legs; finally, when the object is close to them, the wings align with the body and show the entire insect/fly.

So, if fish are keying on mayflies I believe some sort of upwind is very important. When caddis are about, or were recently about, they don't need upright wings to be present.

As to the Harrop Hairwing Dun, most folks suggest it is sort of an all-purpose pattern, but not the best when fishing to picky feeding fish. When fish are actively feeding on a particular mayfly pattern, I don't think the Hairwing Dun would be the best choice and I suggests that Rene would agree. His most promoted/used patterns are more lifelike........the cripples and the more standard type upwind flies he and his family tie.

[Steven]

All studies (that I am aware of) of what a trout sees in the water agree that they first sight wing tips of an insect or a fly coming into their "window" of vision. Then, they see the impression in the meniscus on the water of the body/legs; finally, when the object is close to them, the wings align with the body and show the entire insect/fly.

It's the last part that I'm not 100% sure of and have trouble visualizing. As I visualize it, if the trout is rising while the fly is coming down, it will never get a view of the fly from directly underneath. The trout has to be near the surface just before taking the fly.

I've seen fish in clear water come from the side and come forward as well to intercept. There's no way they had a direct underneath view.

[Byron haugh]

This has been my experience, and those of many authors on the subject: When trout are keying on a specific hatch of mayflies, they often become "sippers". They lie in the feeding lanes, and, as those wings appear in their window floating toward them, they begin to rise up to "sip" the insect. So, it may not be directly below the fly, but it is under the water looking up through their window. Certainly not our vision.........viewing from perhaps 4ft. above the surface.

I guess a corollary might be: What convinces a trout, when caddis are on the water, to take a caddis pattern? Might it be the tent-like view from beneath?

[Byron haugh]

My original post used the specific example of the X-Caddis fly pattern. Hans mentioned his success with the CDC&Elk in mayfly situations.
I would argue that the CDC&Elk is substantively different in that the "flowing" CDC fibers present a substantially different look than a dubbed X-Caddis.

I will probably be faulted for my version of Hans' pattern, but offer a view of it as a trout might see it (second photo). Granted, it is dry and not on the water, but I think this is representative.

First the fly as we might see it.








Then the fly as the trout might see it. I think it is dramatically different from an X-Caddis from below/looking up..............

[Bruce Norikane]

Steven, That is sort of my argument. All studies (that I am aware of) of what a trout sees in the water agree that they first sight wing tips of an insect or a fly coming into their "window" of vision. Then, they see the impression in the meniscus on the water of the body/legs; finally, when the object is close to them, the wings align with the body and show the entire insect/fly.
.

Only if the insect or fly is sitting completely on top of the water, which only happens for a fully emerged adult. Since many of our flies imitate insects emerging with a lot of the pattern under the surface, fish see the underwater parts from a long way off with no interference from the water/air surface mirror. Notice how clear the hook is in the image below.

Back to your original question, good point - view from below is much better! To go one step further, we should look at how the fly looks floating in the water, so drop the fly in a clear glass and look at in from all sides.

I think you'll find that many flies show quite a bit under the surface. Unless you gink up the shuck, the X-Caddis is going to float with the abdomen and shuck beneath the surface. From that view it closely resembles a sparkle dun as others have said. Both resemble an emerging mayfly, since many mayfly nymphs float slanted close to horizontal just below the surface while the adult emerges. The wing may resemble the adult climbing out but looks pretty fuzzy from below the surface.

I'm amazed at how much a floating flies image changes from just ahead to directly below. Just float a few patterns in a glass. It's quite striking.

From this:

sectionfive2.jpg

To this:
sectionfive4.jpg

These images from J Castwell's wonderful series, "Flies Only" which is found in the Features section of this website.
Doesn't this explain many last second refusals?

[Joe Billingsley]

And then you have the trout hitting cigarette butts and leaves floating along. Go figure.

Joe