Wrap burnishing

[dleo6446]

There are various schools of though on rod wrapping and wrap finishing, but one tip I picked up a few years ago was in wrap "finishing" before applying the varnish or epoxy. Wrapping a rod usually puts some stress on the threads in the wrapping process that can create all sorts of finish problems. these include small gaps between the thread, "fuzzies" (little strands of filamant that can be a nightmare to get rid of), and little ridges created by variations in thread thickness that is a natural occurance with any machine procuced item like threads.

What I do, following the advice of many great rod builders, is after completeing the wrap, I use a very highly polished tool to burnish the wraps. this is simply using the tool to rub the wraps in the direction of the guide, or the ferrule, or what ever, so that the thread does 2 things. 1. It flattens the thread out some which makes it more conducive to a better varnish or epoxy finish, and 2. it tightens the wraps up so that there are no "air gaps" between the wrapped threads. Next, I use an alcohol burner to very lighly singe the wraps and that takes any of the fuzzies out of the wrap before I apply the varnish or epoxy. Don't use a bic lighter however, it will leave a carbon residue on the lighter colored threads.

Just curious what everyone else is doing and if there is anything I am omitting in what I am doing that could give a higher quality or level of satisfaction in this crucial piece of rod building.

[PanFisher]

I was told that one of the causes for bubbles in the finish is the way thread is produced. Something about the combinations of dyes etc. I was told there was nothing that can be done. Well being a manager of Technical Support all I do all day is try to figure out solutions. So I came up with something that has made a major difference for my finishes.

I put a ?Pre-Finish? on my wraps before finishing the rod. That is I mix a coat that is diluted One Part ?A?, One Part ?B?, and One Part Denatured Alcohol. This mixture is quite diluted going on like water. I apply the coat very thin and then give the coat the usual 24 hrs to dry. Then I apply a normal finish. This Pre-Finish locks in any impurities in the threads or oils from being handled.

I no longer have a problem with bubbles.


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Let No One Walk Alone
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Bill

[Doublehauler]

Panfisher, I would appreciate a little more information if you have the time. What kind of epoxy are you using, Flex Coat, Crystal, ??

How do you apply the diluted varnish, by brush??

Does the diluted varnish coat have to be rotated??

I always seem to have some bubble problems, I know some of it is as you say, from trapped air in the threads and thread wraps, also sometimes some silicone gets into the epoxy and that also causes bubbles. I can usually get rid of them by breathing on them. just get the wrap close to your lips and exhale softly. I guess it is the warm and moist air, but it works, ( most of the time )

I try to avoid introduction of silicone into the varnish by using stir sticks that are the left over shafts of old brushes that Flex Coat sells, guaranteed no silicone. And I use their mixing cups, also same guarantee. No wood stirring sticks and no paper or unknown plastic mixing cups.

I had not heard about using denatured alcohol as a thinner, but I have used MEK as a cure retarder, gives you a bit of extra time before the epoxy kicks over and you are left with a quantity of quickly hardening epoxy that will go to waste. If you try the MEK, use only a few drops. A little bit goes a long way.

Thanks for your information.

[PanFisher]

Doublehauler,

Move Over, get out of the way - I AM the original BUBBLE KING!!!!

Breathing, Hot Air I have heard about all these tricks in the last 30 years. Still nothing I did got rid of bubbles except??..

I got sick and tired of bubbles. Bubbles, Bubbles everywhere don?t know where they all came from. But I learned two things.

1. Some of them came from the thread and impurities in the thread or introduced from the oil in my hands. I used varnish or epoxy rather than a polymer for years because the polymers produced nothing but bubbles.

Note the term ?Epoxy? is greatly misused. Dale Clemens original Crystal Coat was a true epoxy. Anything thing else (in my understanding) is actually a polymer. Polymers include Flex Coat and similar products that have come out since then. The polymer is a much better clearer finish than an epoxy and is what I prefer to use. I like the Flex Coat light when I can find it. I have used other brands though ? the pre-finish trick still works.

The Pre-Finish is exactly as I stated - One Part ?A?, One Part ?B?, and One Part Denatured Alcohol. I do turn the rod and I do use a brush. The brush brings me to my second revelation.

2. BRUSHES can and do produce bubbles. The correct type of brush will not produce as many bubbles.

I have always used just cheap ?12 for a buck? throw away brushes. I have heard others recommend fine ?Horse Hair? brushes but that never made sense to me and didn?t work when I tried it. Cheap worked so I stuck with it. Well I recently bought a set of cheap brushes ? I might term them ?Million Bubble Brushes?! WOW, I?ve never seen so many bubbles even with my experience. I have built hundreds possibly thousands of rods in the last 30 years and have never seen anything like the bubbles produced by the last set of brushes I purchased. I had to stop where I was go out and buy different brushes to continue on the rod I was working on.

Now I?m on a search/quest to learn and understand behavior between polymer and different types of brushes. My next set of brushes will likely be purchased from a supplier rather than a Super Market. I have yet to experiment on brush types to determine which is the best but I believe the Flex Coat brushes will be my next purchase.

I do use a glass mixing container and stirrer from and old chemistry class for my mixing. These tools are cleaned out religiously with denatured alcohol and acetone. I rotate the rod on a Flex Coat rod wrapper. Since using the diluted Pre-Finish method I no longer have a problem with bubbles. Originally I was instructed to never dilute with more than just a very small drop of denatured alcohol, but that statement referred to the final finish. I don?t dilute my final finish at all ? I just lock in all the impurities with the pre-finish.

This is what works for me. If others have found better solutions speak up.


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Let No One Walk Alone
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Bill

[dleo6446]

Hey Bill, when you do find a bruch that is bubble-free so to say, let us know about it. So far the closest I have come to bubble free brushes are the orange colored flat artist brushes I found at Hobby Lobby....but even then, I find myself exhaling through a staw to eliminate those that are sometimes emitted from the thread.

[buildsrods]

dleo6446 shame on you,,a boo man should only use spar varnish. lol Mr Leonard is looking down at you ..good luck on the bubble free finish.

[Northern Extreme]

I only use brushes on the first coat (Flexcoat Lite) and only use enough to coat the thread. When I'm done I can still see the texture of the thread wraps.

For the 2nd coat I use Steel Spatulas. I bought a set off EBAY on the suggestion of another board (rodbuilding.org) and will never go back.

I very seldom get bubbles now, and the few I do get come right out with a bubble buster (alcohol torch).

[dleo6446]

hehe..right you are buildsrods...and that I do too, I slip a graphite in here occasionally though,

[PanFisher]

Steel Spatulas?

Hmmmm, Google brought up a bit of info on "Crafters Spatulas" - I'll give that a try.

Northern Extreme - Thanks for the tip.

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Let No One Walk Alone
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Bill

[mojoman]

I had very few bubbles with my first build...but I prepare my flexcote a lil' different I suppose...I first place both containers into hot water in a cereal bowl for bout 5 mins....then measure out equal amounts on a flat piece of tinfoil(folded on itself a few times for strength)I mix it with the same tool I apply it with...a flat angled spatula about 1/4inch wide with a 45degree angled tip...I mix my arse off for 3 mins mixing in both directions....and breath heavily on the mix a few times...most bubbles dissapear....the same when applyin' the mix....breath when ya see bubbles...same with turning....I still have lots to learn... ))


mojo