Length of 'fly line'

[vicrider]

I do not object to Tenkara fishing at all but laws have to be carefully worded for any situation calling for C&R or fly only waters. If you do not distinguish fly fishing in any way except a fly then you open up the waters to those spin fisherman using weights and flies. Having been on a guided trip where we did nothing but dunk heavy nymphs and split shot under a bobber if I ever do that again I'll leave the fly rod on the shelf and use my 10' noodle rod and closed face underspin Shakespeare 1810 instead. Why a flyrod when you're basically bobber fishing? From what I read and see on Tenkara it's fly fishing to me even if it relates more to "dabbing" than casting, but laws have to define things closely when we start dealing with courts, lawyers and judges...and fines.

[CM_Stewart]

From what I read and see on Tenkara it's fly fishing to me even if it relates more to "dabbing" than casting.

If that is what you have read, you have been misinformed. Tenkara fishing very definitely involves casting. The cast is very much like a fly fishing steeple cast, in which your back cast is high and you forward cast is down towards the water so that the fly lands first. If you do not haul (or double haul) the motion of the hand, arm - and line - is almost identical.

[CM_Stewart]

If you do not distinguish fly fishing in any way except a fly then you open up the waters to those spin fisherman using weights and flies.

I'm sorry, but I don't see what's wrong with that. They paid the same for their license, why shouldn't they be able to fish the same waters? Whether it is a spin fisherman with a split shot and fly or a fly fisherman with a heavily weighted Czech nymph, the impact on the fishery is the same. It is my belief that any regulations should be put in place to protect the fishery, not to reserve certain waters for people who want to fish a certain way. That's not fisheries management, that's elitism.

[pszy22]

If that is what you have read, you have been misinformed. Tenkara fishing very definitely involves casting. The cast is very much like a fly fishing steeple cast, in which your back cast is high and you forward cast is down towards the water so that the fly lands first. If you do not haul (or double haul) the motion of the hand, arm - and line - is almost identical.

I'm in total agreement with Chris; when fishing a fixed-length line set up such as we discuss in this forum, the use of an actual cast is definitely involved, on par with any fly fishing related set up using snake guides.

Now please excuse me for going off on a bit of a tangent. Perhaps my biggest tenkara related pet peeve is the terminology we use for the stringy things involved in tenkara. I personally don't think it makes sense to refer to the main portion of the stringy stuff as a leader. I think it causes nothing but confusion.

The confusion it causes for me may be more pronounced, since I primarily fish a furled stringy, and the stringy stuff set up I use consists of three distinct parts -

+ A main line which provides mass in order to carry along the near massless fly
+ An intermediate portion designed to transition between the main line and final termination of the stringed stuff
+ A terminal piece of small diameter string to which the fly is attached

So for me, I need three names to talk about my string stuff - main line, leader and tippet. I can see how this might not be an issue for folks who fish a single strand line and tie it directly to a tippet. Even then I would argue that the single strand is there not to provide a transition (as is implied by the term leader), it is there to provide mass in order to deliver the weightless fly. I'm not sure there may not be good reasons to include a intermediate transition between the main line and tippet when using a single strand line.

Calling the whole thing a leader may not hurt, but it certainly doesn't help to explain it's purpose. It seems to lend itself to the idea that since there is no line involved, one must just be dappling.

Sorry for the rant.

[Danny]

I just returned to this thread after a week and have to say that many good points have been made. Unfortunately, it seems most comments are offered by those with little knowledge of our struggle in Washington State over the last 25 years to protect wild fish and habitat along with providing a very few "fly fishing only" waters which have been designated as such for many reasons. Hard work, investments in time, labor and love have been the prime efforts by the fly fishing community and the motivation is pretty much 90% resource/environmental and 10% selfish desire to have a little water for our own. If you want to call that 10% elitism, go ahead. Other states with declining and degredated fisheries should take a look at what these so called "elitists" have accomplished. The REGS in our state, flawed as they may be, serve many masters including flyfishing clubs, native american counsels, wildcat steelheaders, wild fish organizations, bass clubs, government management goals and the like. Unfortunately tenkara has fallen between gear definitions. I am sure this will be overcome as soon as WDFW is made aware of the method as a legitimate form of fly fishing. Please be aware. We have a terrible problem with fish mortality. Clearly it has been debated yet no longer disputed that bait fishing kills more sportfish than fishing with a fly. Moreover a fly tied on a barbless hook enhances the possibility of "life after fight" All the line, reel type and technique terminology is a small attempt to maximize the survival rate of trout in lakes and streams that are determined to benifit from more careful angling practices and less pressure. Give us a break here. And remember, a lot of tenkara anglers are new to fishing and have never offered input to regulation change nor been involved in the type of political battles some of the fly fishing clubs in our state have had to endure with great perserverance and grit. If the language in the REGs needs to be modified to include tenkara as a fly fishing method, it eventually will. An understanding and appreciation of the regulatory history in our state will give you an idea as to why it currently is not.

[CM_Stewart]

Clearly it has been debated yet no longer disputed that bait fishing kills more sportfish than fishing with a fly.

Agreed.

Moreover a fly tied on a barbless hook enhances the possibility of "life after fight"

I've seen studies that suggest barbed vs. barbless has does not have a significant impact on the health of the fishery, but I won't argue the point.

All the line, reel type and technique terminology is a small attempt to maximize the survival rate of trout in lakes and streams that are determined to benifit from more careful angling practices and less pressure. Give us a break here.

I understand and agree with the goal, but I think it takes the wrong approach. Scientific studies support the bait vs. fly regulations. Are there any studies at all that support regulating the line, reel, and rod as long as the same fly is on the end of the line?

This is not a tenkara vs. fly fishing argument. It is probably much more relevant to a kid with a fly trailing behind a casting bubble. The survival rate of the trout should be identical no matter what the delivery mechanism is as long as the fly is the same.

[Danny]

You completely miss the point of my comment Chris. I was only trying to explain why the regulations were drafted in the first place with a bit of history surrounding the struggle involved. The fly-fishing-only regs in WA existed long before anyone in this country had even a hint of knowledge about tenkara or was practicing it. Had tenkara been a form of fly fishing at the time, I am sure the wording would be much different in order to include it. The current regs only have the effect of excluding tenkara not the intent if you will - there was never any conscious attempt to exclude it nor would there have been. Tenkara simply did not "exist" in the western world at the time. Of course the survival rate of fish caught via tenkara is the same as conventional fly fishing. And I never said otherwise. GO HAWKS! "It's all about the action, boss"

[CM_Stewart]

Danny, I didn't make myself clear. The point I wanted to make was not about tenkara, it was about regulations trying to preserve "fly fishing" rather than preserving the health of the fishery.

I don't know when the regs were written, but I would bet they were written long after people started fishing with a spinning rod, casting bubble and trailing fly - and they were written to prevent fishing that way. I believe the regs in all states that require a fly line, reel and rod (as opposed to just fishing with a FLY) were written specifically to prevent fishing with a spinning rod and fly - and thus go way beyond ensuring the survival of released fish.