Length of 'fly line'

[sagefisher]

While working an IFFF booth at a local sporting event, a person approached us and asked if we could have the state game laws changed to allow Tenkara rod fishing on Fly Fishing Only waters. Apparently the problem is that the state regulations require 25 feet of conventional fly line
".....and a conventional fly line (other line may be used for backing or leader if attached to at least 25 feet of fly line)."

I have not done any Tenkara style fly fishing so I am not sure how your lines are put together but I suspect you don't have 25 feet of conventional fly line attached.

How do you complete a line set-up for a Tenkara rod?

Larry ---sagefisher---

[GregM]

"Fly Fishing Only" in the state of Washington is being discussed here -

http://www.tenkarausa.com/forum/view...hp?f=21&t=5000


To answer your question - "How do you complete a line set-up for a tenkara rod?" -

A typical tenkara setup consists of a "line" and "tippet". In "conventional" terms it would be "leader" and "tippet".

The line is usually as long as the rod, +/- 2', depending on a bunch of stuff, with a typical rod being about 12' long. Tippet is usually 2' to 3' long.

For folks fishing "non-typical tenkara", the line might be 1.5 x rod length, and tippet will range from 3' to 8'+. So even with a 15' rod, the line will only be 22' long, but it is irrelevant inasmuch as it is Not "fly line".

And most tenkara rods are too soft to handle even very light fly line, and for those that could, you would have a very hard time keeping the line off the water, which is a key aspect of tenkara fishing technique.

[sagefisher]

Greg, Thanks for the link. Looks like we need to make some changes in the law. Larry ---sagefisher---

[CM_Stewart]

As GregM wrote, tenkara "line" is analogous to fly fishing "leader." The rods are so supple that many of them will easily cast fifteen feet of 0X fluorocarbon tippet material, to which is attached 3' of 5X tippet and an unweighted soft hackle fly. Just like fly rods, tenkara rods cast the weight of the line, even though the line might weigh only 10-15 grains, as opposed to the 60 grains of a 1-weight fly line. Most tenkara rods would easily cast a 12 to 15' knotless tapered fly fishing leader (no fly line, just the leader). In fact, both in Japan and the US, some tenkara anglers use just that, a knotless tapered leader of 3.5, 4 or 4.5 meters in length to which a Hi-Vis dye was added in the manufacturing process so they can watch the "line" for indication of a strike. Even a 1 weight fly line is too heavy - or at least much heavier than necessary.

Why do the state regulations require 25' of conventional fly line? What were they trying to exclude? In tenkara fishing, just as with "conventional" fly fishing, an unweighted fly is propelled by casting the weight of the line (even though the line weight is very small). To me, that seems much more "conventional" than say, short line Czech nymphing, in which an angler lobs a couple heavily weighted nymphs with perhaps no more than a foot of fly line beyond the tip guide. Czech nymphing is legal in fly fishing only waters. An angler may in fact have 90' of fly line on his reel, but none of it is ever used. If it never leaves the real, why do the regulations require that he have it?

The real question, though, is whether the regulations are written to preserve the fishery or to preserve someone's idea of traditional fly fishing. Tenkara is no more damaging to the fishery than conventional fly fishing. Same fly, same tippet strength, (and therefore the same pressure that can be applied to landing the fish). With respect to tradition, tenkara is just the Japanese word for the fly fishing practiced by Izaak Walton, Charles Cotton and Dame Juliana Berners. If anyone thinks that Dame Juliana Berners, were she alive today, should not be allowed to fish in Washington's Fly Fishing Only waters, I would love to hear him try to make that case.

[Steven McGarthwaite]

Since a Tenkara Fishing Rod does not have a reel, and that the length of the line is normally the same length as the Tendara Fishing Rod, I see a wonderful use of a "parobolic tapered furled leader", with a short lenght of small diameter tippet to match the size of the dressed fly pattern...

I have created the "Big Furled Leader Formula CD" (with lots help and input from Deanna Travis)

All you have to do is send me your mailing address, and I will have a BFLF CD in the outgoing mail...

I found that using mercerized cotton thread increases the cotton thread luster, as well as increasing the thread strength

Steven H. McGarthwaite

[sagefisher]

CM,

The law was not put in place as a way to leave out Tenkara style fishing. Back when the law was written I doubt if anyone was aware of Tenkara style fishing. I am sure the law was written to try to define 'fly fishing' vs any other type of fishing, meaning mainly gear fishing.

So, we simply need to work on having a new definition to the law that will allow Tenkara style fly fishing. Changing a law is a slow process but we can work on that. However, since the actual Fly Fishing Only waters are very few in WA State this problem does not impact most fishing waters. But, Tenkara fishers need to be aware of the exclusion so they don't accidentally fish in Fly Fishing Only waters. I trust the various Tenkara related groups will make sure their members are aware.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[Danny]

I am providing a more appropriate, non-commercial and direct link:
PETITION FILED ON THE TENKARA ISSUE

http://northwest-tenkara.com/legalize/#more-374

A WDFW hearing on the Tenkara issue is now scheduled for February 14. It is a "telephone closed conference" and the outcome, it seems, will be based primarily upon the specific merits of the petition. I don't think public input will be entertained, however letters to the WDFW could not help but influence a positive decision. Evidently an audio recording of the meeting will be available. Please take a look at the link for more details.

[CM_Stewart]

CM,

The law was not put in place as a way to leave out Tenkara style fishing.

I am sure you are correct, and I do not for a minute think the regulations in any state are specifically anti-tenkara.

I do think that many of them are unnecessarily exclusive. It seems to me that regulations are necessary to preserve the fishery but they are not necessary to preserve fly fishing. Like many people who are now fly fishermen, as a kid I started out with a spinning rod, a casting bubble and a fly. I am sure that I was less of a risk to the fishery than my father, who fished his three wet flies and caught many more fish than I did. I cannot for the life of me understand why any state would not allow a kid with a casting bubble and a fly to fish any waters in the state. The only thing that affects the fish or the fishery is what is on the end of the line. If there is a fly on the end on the line I cannot understand why the delivery mechanism matters at all.

Washington requires 25' of fly line. Pennsylvania requires the leader to be less than 18'. Several states require a fly reel. Why? None of those things have any bearing on the health of the fishery.

I can understand prohibiting the use of bait in waters where a population of wild fish has to be carefully managed. Studies show that bait fishing does increase mortality in released fish. I can even understand prohibiting treble hooks, as studies show they also increase mortality in released fish. So, ban bait if you must. Ban treble hooks if you must. Define fly fishing as fishing with a fly - period. The impact on released fish is the same whether the fly is cast by a fly rod or a spinning rod, or whether the fly rod has 25' of conventional fly line. It isn't the responsibility of the state to preserve "fly fishing." How will a warden know if a guy with a spinning rod has a fly or a worm? The same way he knows if a guy with a fly rod has a fly or a worm! It's not something he can tell from his car!

I do not live in Washington, and the people of Washington (and Pennsylvania and Connecticut and New Hampshire, etc. etc. etc.) have a right to regulate fishing any way they want. I'm just glad my own state doesn't have such regulations (except for less than one mile on only one stream).

[rainbowchaser]

Here in Michigan the law was changed to require a fly line to block those who were fishing flies only areas with a fly reel loaded with mono-filament and and several heavy sinkers with a fly fished like a jig. Many guides on popular waters were using this technique making it hard for fly fishers to even get on the best holes as boat after boat of spin fishers tied them up.

[51BC]

There has always been a disconnect between those making the laws and those trying to live by (or enforce) them. I guess it's hard to write a meaningful law about some thing that you don't really understand. I hope you can get this one resolved. When in doubt, always check with the guy who has to try to enforce the law. For good or ill, his (or her) thoughts on what the law means is what is going to matter out in the bush.