When does a fly become a lure?

[WarrenP]

I think Larry (sagefisher) has pretty much answered this question the best that it can be answered without creating sides.

[sgallas2]

I'm not experienced with salt water or steelhead/salmon but ,in addition to what sagefisher said, a further designation for me is the number of hooks on it. A fly ,for me, never has more than one hook .
Best
Steve

[billhouk]

I'm not wanting to start a battle. I wondered about others opinions. Sqalles2 raises a good point. However, I think there are some flies with stingers in them. This may be an example of what you are throwing it with determines if it is a fly. Other (polite) thoughts?

[Allan]

Okay, how's this: All flies are lures but not all lures are flies.
Over the years, I've participated in many (a lot) of discussions/threads on this very subject and given it some thought. Aside from what is stated in individual state and locale fishing regulations, here's my opinion and it's just that. My individual opinion and you may agree, disagree or feel it needs some tweeking. 'A fly imitates a water born or water found insect. It is tyed on a single pointed hook. It may have some minor added weight wrapped under the body but the attachment of a weighted or even an unweighted bead head makes it a 'lure'. A lure can be reasonably, effectively cast and often even fished with typical spinning equipment but a fly cannot. A true fly can only be cast because it is carried by the fly line. The fly itself offers no aid to the cast.' Just some of my thoughts and many of those contained in posts above are good too.

Allan

P.S. Again, barring any specific state DEC regs, maybe the best way to determine 'fly' or 'lure' would be to paraphrase what Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said about 'obsenity' (again paraphrasing) 'I may not know how to define it but I'll know it when I see it'.

[Uncle Jesse]

. 'A fly imitates a water born or water found insect. It is tyed on a single pointed hook. It may have some minor added weight wrapped under the body but the attachment of a weighted or even an unweighted bead head makes it a 'lure'.

Court Justice Potter Stewart said about 'obsenity' (again paraphrasing) 'I may not know how to define it but I'll know it when I see it'.

That excludes a lot of new and classic patterns for leeches, crawfish, minnows, and a large group of salt water patterns I cannot name. There are classic salmon patterns tied on double hooks and new patterns and old with wire for strictly weight and wire as part of the fly. Isn't the real question when is a lure a fly? If memory serves me well, I believe the first fish I ever caught on a outfit with a rod and reel was on a popping bug behind a bobber on my first spincast outfit. Was the popper still a fly? Or does the lure have to attached to a flyline on a flyrod? Is a plastic worm or shad thrown with a flyrod a fly?

[Allan]

That excludes a lot of new and classic patterns for leeches, crawfish, minnows, and a large group of salt water patterns I cannot name. There are classic salmon patterns tied on double hooks and new patterns and old with wire for strictly weight and wire as part of the fly. Isn't the real question when is a lure a fly? If memory serves me well, I believe the first fish I ever caught on a outfit with a rod and reel was on a popping bug behind a bobber on my first spincast outfit. Was the popper still a fly? Or does the lure have to attached to a flyline on a flyrod? Is a plastic worm or shad thrown with a flyrod a fly?

Jesse,
With only 1 exception, the 'classic salmon patterns', none of the others are insects and are, as I wrote in my opinion, 'lures' not 'flies'. Classic salmon patterns were originally, and are generally still refered to as 'lures' by traditional salmon fly fishers. As far as using a spinning outfit to cast a 'fly'. Let's say you had used an Adams dry below the bobber instead of a popper. You would have caught that fish on a fly but you were certainly not fly fishing. Oh - "Is a plastic worm or shad thrown with a flyrod a fly?" NO!
Maybe you agree or disagree. It's entirely up to you.

[oldfrat]

I have a hard time drawing the line at insect. There are too many legitimate flies that imitate non-insects. I find it hard, for example, to disqualify an egg pattern as a fly.

[dpenrod]

look up the jawbreaker fly. i have fished this for bass over the summer with good success and think it would also make a fine trout fly tied in a smaller size. however, i think it pushes that line of what a fly should be just because of the rubber tail. i am fine with the rubber legs, but that tail makes me feel a little guilty fishing it on my fly rod. sure is effective though.

[DaleW]

One of the definitions of Mr. Webster for lure is "artificial bait used for catching fish". Most certainly that would describe a hand tied fly attempting to front for some bug/insect. No doubt "lure" has a wide definition for the many different types of fishing but the word artificial nails it down.

[Uncle Jesse]

but that tail makes me feel a little guilty fishing it on my fly rod. sure is effective though.

I feel a little guilty about eating a big bowl of blackberry cobbler with ice cream, but if one is put in front of me, it will probably be eaten. If that catches fish I would fling it. I would like to find a size better fitted to the 3 - 5 wt. rod. I have tried to develop a template for cutting similar tails from balloons with little success.