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Thread: When does a fly become a lure?

  1. #1
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    Default When does a fly become a lure?

    First, don't get me wrong. I make my own spinner baits and in-line spinners. No value judgement of good or bad. But, when does a fly become a lure? Large streamers and flies made with jig heads can be used as lures just as easily as a fly. Is the deciding factor the line and what it is attached to on the back end?
    Last edited by billhouk; 09-01-2013 at 01:37 PM.

  2. #2
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    Pandora's Box - By asking the question of "When does a fly become a lure?", you may have just opened it. Technically, a fly is alwas a lure. Wikipedia says "A fishing lure is an object attached to the end of a fishing line which is designed to resemble and move like the prey of a fish." Thus, every fly is a lure.

    That said, I know why you asked that question. I have seen many 'flies' that I would call a lure, but fot the fact that they were hand made and tied on a hook.

    Many states have created laws pertaining to 'fly fishing only' situations, and even their laws are a bit vague.

    For me, it is a simple answer. If I use a fly rod and a fly line to cast the 'fly', then the fly is a fly. Main reason, the line is taking the fly with it. If I use a spinning rod with a thin mono type line, then it is a lure, main reason, the lure is taking the line with it. There are streamers and such that can be used in either manner of casting, so it all depends upon what rod/reel/line I am using.

    Larry ---sagefisher---
    Last edited by sagefisher; 09-01-2013 at 02:06 PM.

  3. #3
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    I read RayBergman's book "Trout" and he calls flies lures lot of times. To me, the line between fly and lure is pretty vague and fuzzy. Although flies are generally made principally of hair, feathers and their synthetic counterparts there are also flies made mainly of epoxy, foam or some other form of plastic. And there there are lures, bucktail and marabou jigs pop to mind, that are mainly made of hair or feathers. So what does it matter, in my opinion, not that much. If you throw it with a fly rod most of the time I'll call it a fly. If you throw it with spinning tackle most of time it's a lure.

  4. #4
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    I think Larry (sagefisher) has pretty much answered this question the best that it can be answered without creating sides.
    Warren
    Fly fishing and fly tying are two things that I do, and when I am doing them, they are the only 2 things I think about. They clear my mind.

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    I'm not experienced with salt water or steelhead/salmon but ,in addition to what sagefisher said, a further designation for me is the number of hooks on it. A fly ,for me, never has more than one hook .
    Best
    Steve
    it's all good drifts

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    I'm not wanting to start a battle. I wondered about others opinions. Sqalles2 raises a good point. However, I think there are some flies with stingers in them. This may be an example of what you are throwing it with determines if it is a fly. Other (polite) thoughts?
    Last edited by billhouk; 09-01-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #7
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    Okay, how's this: All flies are lures but not all lures are flies.
    Over the years, I've participated in many (a lot) of discussions/threads on this very subject and given it some thought. Aside from what is stated in individual state and locale fishing regulations, here's my opinion and it's just that. My individual opinion and you may agree, disagree or feel it needs some tweeking. 'A fly imitates a water born or water found insect. It is tyed on a single pointed hook. It may have some minor added weight wrapped under the body but the attachment of a weighted or even an unweighted bead head makes it a 'lure'. A lure can be reasonably, effectively cast and often even fished with typical spinning equipment but a fly cannot. A true fly can only be cast because it is carried by the fly line. The fly itself offers no aid to the cast.' Just some of my thoughts and many of those contained in posts above are good too.

    Allan

    P.S. Again, barring any specific state DEC regs, maybe the best way to determine 'fly' or 'lure' would be to paraphrase what Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said about 'obsenity' (again paraphrasing) 'I may not know how to define it but I'll know it when I see it'.
    Last edited by Allan; 09-01-2013 at 09:24 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan View Post
    . 'A fly imitates a water born or water found insect. It is tyed on a single pointed hook. It may have some minor added weight wrapped under the body but the attachment of a weighted or even an unweighted bead head makes it a 'lure'.

    Court Justice Potter Stewart said about 'obsenity' (again paraphrasing) 'I may not know how to define it but I'll know it when I see it'.
    That excludes a lot of new and classic patterns for leeches, crawfish, minnows, and a large group of salt water patterns I cannot name. There are classic salmon patterns tied on double hooks and new patterns and old with wire for strictly weight and wire as part of the fly. Isn't the real question when is a lure a fly? If memory serves me well, I believe the first fish I ever caught on a outfit with a rod and reel was on a popping bug behind a bobber on my first spincast outfit. Was the popper still a fly? Or does the lure have to attached to a flyline on a flyrod? Is a plastic worm or shad thrown with a flyrod a fly?
    Want to hear God laugh? Tell him Your plans!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Jesse View Post
    That excludes a lot of new and classic patterns for leeches, crawfish, minnows, and a large group of salt water patterns I cannot name. There are classic salmon patterns tied on double hooks and new patterns and old with wire for strictly weight and wire as part of the fly. Isn't the real question when is a lure a fly? If memory serves me well, I believe the first fish I ever caught on a outfit with a rod and reel was on a popping bug behind a bobber on my first spincast outfit. Was the popper still a fly? Or does the lure have to attached to a flyline on a flyrod? Is a plastic worm or shad thrown with a flyrod a fly?
    Jesse,
    With only 1 exception, the 'classic salmon patterns', none of the others are insects and are, as I wrote in my opinion, 'lures' not 'flies'. Classic salmon patterns were originally, and are generally still refered to as 'lures' by traditional salmon fly fishers. As far as using a spinning outfit to cast a 'fly'. Let's say you had used an Adams dry below the bobber instead of a popper. You would have caught that fish on a fly but you were certainly not fly fishing. Oh - "Is a plastic worm or shad thrown with a flyrod a fly?" NO!
    Maybe you agree or disagree. It's entirely up to you.
    Last edited by Allan; 09-01-2013 at 11:53 PM.

  10. #10
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    I have a hard time drawing the line at insect. There are too many legitimate flies that imitate non-insects. I find it hard, for example, to disqualify an egg pattern as a fly.

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