have been using them for aq long time, about the late 50 a older fly tyer show me how. nice way to get off color bodys, grouse tails I spit down the middle you get two color a light and a nice reddest brown. at the time I had lots of condor quills, so didn't have to do that much. I do like the breadcrust with the grouse quills. when I had the fly shop and had classes I showed that and how to weave. one day cutting some grouse quills using a razor blade I cut my hand luck was the hospital was two blocks away--- 6 stitches--- flyman 3