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Thread: Teton Tenkara's Wind Line

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Fresno, California
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    392

    Default Teton Tenkara's Wind Line

    http://tetontenkara.blogspot.com/201...-for-wind.html

    Buying a RIO PowerFlex Shooting Line is about a 40.00 dollar investment and would seem too pricy just to make up a Wind Line with as described in the link above. However, the RIO PowerFlex Shooting line can also be used to make up 10 and 12 or 13 foot long or so Floating Tenkara fly lines with, by nail knotting on about 2 feet of Red 15 Lb. Amnesia and tying a foot or so long piece of 10 Lb. test HiVis Nylon Mono to the tippet end of the line. Since this is a Mono-Core line, the PVC coating could be stripped off of the rod end of the line and you could use what ever knot you like (or a girth hitch) for the line to lillian juncture. The 0.24 Dia. RIO Floating PowerFlex Line is 20Lb. test, and comes in a pale Orange color only. Here is a link to a source for RIO's PowerFlex Shooting Line: http://www.feather-craft.com/wecs.ph...y&target=FG139
    Last edited by Golden; 03-05-2013 at 06:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    134

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    Shelling out $40 for the Rio was hard for me to swallow so I'm planning to make my own lines from used fly line. I have clipped off the running-line portion of a #2F WF line and have more than enough to make a few tenkara lines. I'm not ready to burn my bridges to rod & reel fishing but my go-to #2 line is my (still intact) double taper and I don't fish #2 out more than 20-25' anyway. I believe that the diameter my #2 running line is very, very close to the Rio.

    As for connecting to the Lilan, I envision a tiny perfection loop in the line, or maybe line doubled back to form a tiny loop bound down with mono. The one tenkara line I've seen made from fly line (provided by a guide) used the latter method, the tied-down loop. Very neat and tidy. The usual small circle of backing line was tied to the loop for connecting to the lilian.

    I plan on doing some experimenting with line length. It occurs to me, for example, that for a 14' line a person might be able to use less than 14' of fly line, with the rest of the length consisting of, say, heavy mono (I want it to float).

    It also occurs to me that when using fly line for fixed-line fishing, it might be a good idea to use the same leader length one would use with rod & reel fishing. This is because the fly line is so splashier on the water than an FC tenkara line. Funny, that leader-length never occurred to me when was using a furled line, which is also splashier than FC.

    Almost all of my fishing is done on still water, so I'm unimpressed with negative comments about not being able to keep fly line off the water when doing fixed-line fishing.

    A new adventure.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Fresno, California
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    Paul, yea the 40.00 sounds steep but that's for 100 feet of the running line. The Rigs Floating Tenkara line cost me 28.00 bucks plus shipping as I remember, and that was for just 10 or so feet of the floating fly line. 0.024 inch in diameter is pretty fine, finer than the diameter of a 2 Wt. running line on a weight forward 2 Wt. floating fly line. On a double tapered line, the center portion of the line is the thickest part. But I believe what you are trying to do should work well with your 2 Wt. running line, as long as you do not try to make too long of a floating line out of it. Let the casting load on your preffered T-rod be your guide to line length by starting a little long and cutting the line back a little at a time until it feels right.

    I am using glued on braided loops on the lillians on all of my T-rods, and I eventually added a braided loop to the rod end of the Rigs Floating Tenkara line as well. On hand-tied tapered lines and level lines, I amusing the Perfect Loop, and the loop-to-loop connection for all of my T-lines.

    And yes, with a floating style Tenkara fly line I believe more of a conventional tapered leader type of approach is the right way to go, because you need a longer, less visible separation in between a floating fly, midge pupa or nymphs and the floating fly line than you do with the sinking Tenkara lines. With floating lines I use HiVis Amnesia and or nylon mono for the butt sections on my leaders, then FC for the transition and tippet sections for reduced visibility for the fish. The lightest test Amnesia available is 15 Pound Test. I make the leader a permanent part of the floating T-line, looping tippets on and off as needed, which does not require eating up the tapered part of the leader to be continually tying new knots.

    I also do a lot of stillwater fishing, and I agree with you 100 percent that holding as much line up and off of the water as you can is not nearly as important for stillwater anglers as it is for stream fishermen. The floating line also allows stillwater anglers to get drag free presentations under windy conditions, keep a floating fly floating, and make multiple rise to the surface and sink back toward the bottom presentations with out having to move the fly very far at all laterally, which is nearly impossible to do with sinking Tenkara lines. Plus the floating line also acts as a better strike indicator than the sinking Tenkara lines can.

    Please keep us posted on how your experiments work out. I think a lot of people here will really enjoy hearing about your new adventures....Golden.
    Last edited by Golden; 03-06-2013 at 08:14 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    134

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    You and I are on the same track, and I think your idea of a permanent loop attached to the lilian is brilliant. I suspect it might make T-purist a bit uncomfortable, but that ain't me. There may a downside to a permanent loop, but at the moment I can't see one.

    As of now, I perceive no need for any Hi-Vis in a floating-line setup for lake fishing, same situation as with rod & reel fly fishing on a lake. But maybe I'm missing something here. If I want to use an indicator, I'll likely use a tuft of poly yarn, as in the old days; a bobber, in other words.

    I plan to start with a 12' cut of fly line. I have several T-rods from 9' to 14', and certainly it will work with one of those if it works at all. Based on results, I'll go from there; either abandon the project (unlikely) or continue to refine the idea.

    I do believe that the running line-portion of a #2 WF will be close to the 0.24 mark because one major manufacturer (forget which, darn it) specifies theirs as being 0.25. That is probably skinnier than the diameter of a #2 level fly line. I rather wish I had a micrometer at this point.

    The idea of taper befuddles me. If tapered, should the line taper down or taper up? Any taper, in this case, would probably be using heavy mono for the thinner portion of the line.

    Right now, there is snow on the ground in this part of Indiana, but as the poet says, "If winter comes, can spring be far behind?"

    ~Paul

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Fresno, California
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    Paul in case you are interested in a Floating Tenkara line with a taper, Blue Ribbon Flies - Craig Mathews and Yvon Chouinard working together- have developed a couple of Floating Tenkara Lines made out of the Sage Quiet Taper, double taper, 000 size fly line, which makes up into a 20 and a 15 foot long set of floating T-lines. The price is about the same as Rio's PowerFlex Shooting/Running Line, which isn't bad considering the Quite Taper was a 70.00 dollar or so line to begin with. Rigs Floating Tenkara line is a level line except for the mono transition section at the tip or tippet end of the line. They recommend using 6:4 and 7:3 or faster rods with their Floating Tenkara lines, which may narrow down which rods to start with for you some. And, by the way, Rigs Fly Shop is an authorized Tenkara USA Dealer. I believe Rigs longest Floating T-line is now 13 feet, mine was a 12 footer but some of that length was made up of the braided line to lillian connecting line and the mono tip section of the line, both of which they have slightly redesigned since I bought my line from them.

    With T-rods you are not casting a lot of line in the first place, so I don't see the taper (in and of itself) as being all that important to the casting function like it is with western fly rods and lines. For instance, I took a 3rd generation TUSA Kevlar line and glued a spot solid at the 7 feet up from the tip end of the line, and let it set up. Then I cut the line there and tied a Perfect loop in each end of the cut lines so that I could have a 7 foot long line or a looped back on 10 foot long line again. And it cast fine either way. Another thing I tried was reversing the furled line on the rod at both lengths to make a weight forward line to cast better under really windy conditions. And again the line cast well reversed in either length on my 12 foot Iwana and 13.5 foot long Amago Rods, but it required a short fast tapered FC section to keep the 5X tippet from hinging with wind resistant flies in the reversed line position.

    Generally tapers go from thick to thin or thin to thick and down to thin again. In the beginning I stayed away from level lines because of bad past experiences I had with them in Western fly fishing. But I gave a level line a try after buying 12, 15 and 20 test FC leader material to replace the Amnesia I had been using for Hand-Tied Tapered Tenkara lines and it was a real eye opener. Level FC lines work much better on Tenkara rods than level floating fly lines work on Western fly rods. So if you have not tried using level lines because of a past Western fly fishing bias against level lines, do not be afraid to give a level FC line a try. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised with the level of performance and efficiency you will get out of the level Fluorocarbon Tenkara lines.

    The only disadvantage I can see to putting a permanent loop or a knot in the lillian is that you can not separate the tip segment of the rod from the one below it with out untying the knot or cutting the loop off the lillian for drying and/or cleaning a rod. But the tip sections on most T-rods are solid, so I don't see it as being that big of an issue.

    On the matter of Amnesia and colored mono, be it FC or Nylon, it just makes line handling easier when you can see the line to grab it.

    You are getting a lot more winter back there than we have had out here. I am running out of snow to ski on. And here on the valley floor, spring has already sprung. I haven't gotten my fishing license yet, but it won't be too long before I do. It will still be a while before trout season opens but there will be bluegill, bass and American Shad hitting before too long. I still use Western tackle for the shad fishing and float tubing, where I need sinking lines and the fish can be a bit much for Tenkara....Golden.

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