Thanx guys. I have a question for fishwater. When you put that much leader on are you using all the same "x" or #test leader. Seems like with a 7' furled leader and 10' of something like 4x or 5x it would be hard to turn over that much. In a lot of cases the leader curling down is a good thing but for me to straighten that much seems tough. Doubt I could do it. I guess I don't completely understand the concept of tapered leaders yet. Is it an extension of the fly line that is supposed to unroll as if it was NOT a leader but rather a taper consistent with the line. Should I think in terms of the furled leader just giving a softer presentation and my leader doesn't really start until I tie to the ring? I have read of guys running 10' leaders after the furled but they taper them as if they were starting at the nail knot. Seems like overkill. Why use the furled if you do that?