Leader to tippet knot

[Leo C]

I have searched this topic already and looking for advice. I know it's been beat to death, but........

I tend to tie a blood knot at home and for convinence use a double surgeons knot at the water.

I have noticed that either of the two seem to be the weak point where my connection to the fish fails. (breaks before the tippet)

Does a knot exist which gives 100% line strength, or close to it which is easy and fast to tie. I don't like loop to loop because of the bulk and gunk and weeds it picks up.

Thanks in advance,
Leo C

[JeffHamm]

Hi,

All knots reduce line strength. It is worse if you pull the knot tight without wetting the line first (i.e. spit). Also, pull the ends quite slowly when tightening up the knot. The problem with fast and dry is that the nylon heats up due to friction, then this stretches the line a bit, making it thinner, and therefore making it even weaker. Also, the knot can fold over on itself, so it won't look neat. The looks are not the problem, it's more if the line is folder over itself then the tension the fish puts on the knot can cause the line to cut through itself. Again, bad news.

So, make sure your line is wet and pull the ends slowly to make sure everything is neat and looks good.

Then, like me, get your fly caught in the tree behind you on the first backcast!

- Jeff

[okflyfisher]

The Pitzen Knot is a very strong knot for attaching fly to tippet. I find it is easier to tie if I hold the fly in my right hand to start( I am right handed). The davy knot is a simple tie. I start this knot by holding the fly in my right hand. Every other tippet to fly knot I start holding the fly in my left hand( go figure)
I personally think it is hard to beat the blood knot for a mid leader connections. For warm water I have been using figure eight knots on 3 piece leaders( butt- mid- tippet) The steps down from the butt are too big for a blood knot. You could also use surgeon knots for mid leader connections
One comment about relative knot strenghts.One study found out there was a 40% varience in in knot strenght among people tying the same knot. In other words find a few knots that are easy for you to tie well and are strong for your fishing application and stick with them

[Leo C]

Jeff,

It's amazing how many trees I catch. I know their there but I always manage to catch at least one per trip. The hook always plants itelf tighter in a tree limb than a fishes lip.

I seem to always get my fly back on a strike by a fish but seldom from a tree. Also when a tree strikes it's usually from 20 plus
feet up.

Thanks for the advice,
Leo C

[tailingloop]

A three turn surgeon's knot will give a stronger connection than a two turn knot and is stronger than a blood knot.

For a near 100% connection create a loop at the end of your leader with a non-slip mono loop knot and put a bmini twist knot in the end of your tipper. The bmini twist will leave you with a 100% loop in the end of your tippet which can be looped to the leader. This will give you a 100% connection with respect to the tippet strength. But since you don't want the 'bulk' of the loops, the three turn surgeon's will likely be the best option.

[J Castwell]

I have found that if you use mono and fluoro, you might want to try your own tests. I have found that I needed a different knot depending on what was being connected to what. I had one knot cut very fast. My results will not be of any value for you,other than to strongly suggest that you actually try the surgeons and the blood knot with whatever 'combo' you are using. Remember, all leader and tippet have different characteristics; strength, abrasion resistance, etc. Only you can make the best choice. "Tie 'em & try 'em," thats what Castwell says!

------------------
"How long does it take to learn fly-fishing?
No one knows."
Grand poo-bah

[Jeremy]

Leo,
I have to agree with Tailingloop here. A 3 turn Surgeons does it about as good as any I've found.

I got into the habit of using it on a trip to the Mo. a few years ago. Seemed to be the best knot I found for attaching flouro tippet to mono. A "2 turn" would sometimes fail so I just use a 3 turn for most applications now.

Works very well for me.

Jeremy.

[okflyfisher]

I noticed that the Seagar knot(their knot for flurocarbon) is simply a figue eight with 2 extra twists

[This message has been edited by okflyfisher (edited 12 July 2006).]

Leo,
Apparently you have an extremely good tippet to fly connection and thats not always the "way to go".

Assuming that your leader end is larger than your tippet, one way to fix it is to drop down on knot strength a smidgen.

Use a weaker knot between the fly and tippet and the break will occur there instead of at the leader to tippet connection. To maximize all the time can get one into trouble sometimes!

All this assumes that you have good material that hasn't ben lying in the sun for long periods of time.

Ol' Bill
1932

[ducksterman]

Agree with Bill...

There shouldn't be the discrepancy between the leader to tippet and the tippet to fly....I would suspect the problem is the end of the leader...

maybe too soft a material relative to the tippet...

maybe it really isn't the strength you think...

maybe deterioration like Bill said...

a blood knot is not a good choice if the two materials a quite different...but a well tied surgeons should take care of that...