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Thread: Moonlit's Furled Lines

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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Moonlit's Furled Lines

    Brandon sent me his Bushi Line and a Sempai type line to review. I was pleased he choose me to review his lines again. I really like his shorter 13.5' Furled lines I tested and talked to him about designing a Longer Line. I was surprised with the outcome of the longer lines. These lines are 27' in length. The first Line I tried was his Bushi Line. To begin, I inspected the line after removing it the package. Tight furls and light in the hand. Since I had to work I only had time to yard cast the line. I rigged the line up on my Nissin Pro Square 4510 with no tippet or fly. I gave it a try and really liked it but had to get used to slowing down the casting stroke. After ten or so minutes I tried it with the TUSA Amago. Same results as with the Nissin. I then inspected his Sempai line and just as please with this line but had to wait to try casting it.

    The weekend came and it was time for some fishing and testing. The weather took a turn for the worse and the wind was blowing and the temps drops but gave it a go. I started with the Bushi line. I rigged up with about 4 ft of 4# fluoro tippet and a size 12 hard body ant. Again it took a few minutes to slow down my casting stroke to get a halfway decent cast. I fished for a good 2 hrs and had called it quits. I went back out the next day for another round. The wind was still there but not that bad. After a few hours of casting the Bushi I finally tried the Sempai. What a big difference. This line was extremely easy to cast and felt like a rocket.

    I was very intrigued by the difference in lines. The Bushi needed a slower casting stroke and the Sempai did not need much of a change from my normal casting stroke. I figured the difference had to be in the mass of the lines. I took the lines to work to weigh these lines and the 24' Sempai line I bought from Chris Stewart of TenkaraBum. My findings are as follows. TB 24' Sempai line weighed 1.5 grams. Brandon's Bushi line was 1.62 grams and his Sempai line was 2.59 grams. With these findings I was still a little surprised to not be able to cast the Bushi line as easily as the others. I can only think that it is my casting that needs to be improved or the limpness of the Bushi. I was able to cast the Bushi at times but had a hard time getting the line, tippet and fly to lay out all the time. The Sempai line I had not trouble casting.

    I went back out this weekend to do more testing with both lines. I really wanted to fish a stream with these but have not had the chance to do so, and it was back to the ponds again. I wanted to try and see how easy these lines are to keep off the water. I have been able to keep but 5 ft off the water after cast but with out moving water the slack pulls most of the line down to the still water. I imagine that even with moving water you will not be able to keep all line off the water but I could be wrong. I am still new to tenkara with less than 1 year experience. I would call the Bushi line an expert line and the Sempai an all around line. I will continue to improve my casting skills and try using lighter lines. Hopefully one day I can cast half as good as Tenkara-no-Oni.

    Mike P.
    Last edited by scorpion1971; 01-20-2013 at 07:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Bloomington, Indiana
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    Default

    Hey, Mike --

    That's a heckuva difference in the weight of those two Sempai lines.

    I'm glad you are working with these long lines. If you have occasion to try fishing something like a Clouser on one of those long lines, I'll be interested in your casting results after working the fly in on a pond. My experience (with a 14' furled line & about 7' of heavy Amnesia above the tippet) was that it was impossible to get the weightd fly up to the surface and back in the air. Having a 21' of all furled line would have made no difference with that problem). I was using a 14' rod, incidentally. Maybe working in moving water would have made a big difference because it would be easier to get the fly back to the surface.

    Keep us posted on whatever you learn. I'm curious where you are fishing these days, with most of the fish having left the shallows.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Paul,

    I have not used a true Clouser with a Tenkara rod and do not see myself using them. They are too heavy to cast effectively. I have used panfish charlies or crazy charlies with large bead chain eyes. When fishing deep water you are correct about getting the fly up to the surface to cast. It is not impossible to do. To get your fly to the surface you need to give your line a few roll type cast with the slack or a couple circle cast like your doing a double snake roll spey cast. This should bring your fly up to the surface but gives you a lot slack in your line. Just make a couple regular cast and you start all over. Hopes this helps.

    Mike P.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Mike -- The red items are extracts from your post:

    I have not used a true Clouser with a Tenkara rod and do not see myself using them. They are too heavy to cast effectively.
    I think the problem was not that they were Clousers or some other similar weight fly; the problem was with the long line in still water with a sinking fly -- coupled with my limited tenkara casting ability. I also tried to cast Schminnows with bead head eyes (somewhat lighter than the Clousers) with the same disappointing results.

    Also, when you and I fished Sugar Creek I was using my usual smallmouth-size Clouser pattern (it is on a 6 or 8 hook) and casting it without problems with my 10'3" Soyokaze. When I tried to cast with the long line, I was using a much heavier and longer (14 feet) rod.

    When fishing deep water you are correct about getting the fly up to the surface to cast. I think the critical issue here is the depth the fly is fished and not the depth of the water, and my Clouser/Schminnow was not being fished deep. I even tried to cast while the fly was quite shallow and close to the surface. Same lousy results.

    To get your fly to the surface you need to give your line a few roll type cast with the slack. That didn't work worth a darn for me, Mike. Too much line out for good roll casting.

    ...or a couple circle cast like your doing a double snake roll spey cast. You have the advantage of me, Mike. I don't have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about here. You are obviously more evolved than I am.

    I know you are trying to be helpful on this, and if I sound quarrelsome, then I'm not doing a good job of expressing myself here.

    SUMMARY: For now, I've pretty well given up on the idea of using a long line in still water, especially with a sinking fly. The only reason I tried it was because I wanted to find out if tenkara might be practical for wipers. They require a long cast when you are wading for them, as I prefer. For me, I see no use for long lines for panfish, bass, or trout, because even with western tackle I prefer to fish for those species close up and personal.









  5. #5
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    Paul watch this video. At the very begging Tenkara-no-Oni is doing what they call snake rolls. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTld2_yAHO4&list=UL

    Now If I understand your problem with long lines it is slack at the end of the retrieve? If this is the case You are trying to fish too much water with the long line. With a shorter line you can fish most of the line at still cast. With a longer line you can only fish a certain amount of line say 6 to 7 ft. Of course the lighter the fly being used the more area you can fish. Tenkara is still like western fly fishing when it comes to casting. You need to get the fly and line moving to make a cast. Easiest way is with a tight line. It may actually be easier if we fished together again so we can show each other what we are talking about.

    Mike P.

  6. #6
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    Mike, the red is from your post:

    With a shorter line you can fish most of the line at still cast. With a longer line you can only fish a certain amount of line say 6 to 7 ft.
    Thanks, mike, you hit the nail on the head. If that short distance, 6-7', is all I'll be able to fish a fly, then the extra length of the cast is not worth the trouble. That might work for bass bugs (bass usually strike close to where the bug hits the water), but certainly not for a streamer fly.

    I know that tenkara has its limitations, and this seems to be another one. I can accept that. I do thank you for taking the time to write such a clear and thorough response. Very helpful.

    For me, it's happily back to tenkara using shorter lines.

    ~Paul

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