Catskills and cocking

[Steven]

I don't know why...I do the same things each time.

But I'd guess 1 out of every 4 catskill-type flies I tie won't cock properly when dropped in a bowl of water. Will lean to one side or the other.

I know trout will likely take them as cripples, but it bugs the hell out of me.

Doesn't really matter the wing-type (hackle tip, wood duck, duck quill slip) and I splay the tail as wide as possible (hence, I recognize it's not a true catskill - not to mention I don't tye size 12s very often).

Thoughts?

[Allan]

Hi Steven,

First, I'd say that that's a very good, if not excellent, percentage and not to worry. Second, and these are only a few guesses: Everything applied to the hook needs to be symetrical. Maybe the thread is being applied tighter on one side then another? The number of hackle barbs or wing fibers just off by a few from one side to the other? One wing split just slightly off center? Maybe just 1 or a couple of the tailing fibers is longer or angled out more on one side than the other? If you use head cement, and I suggest not to, maybe it's not being applied uniformly?
Anyway, those are just some guesses.

Allan

[Steven]

I always check the wing slips and tails - but this last couple I couldn't tell anything. No head cement on the head. I do use some at the base of the tails to ensure that they stay splayed (AK Best tip).

If I have to count hackle barbules, I'm going to quit tying

[Allan]

Steven,

Like I wrote, 3 out of 4 cocking correctly is an excellent ratio. Ask some of the 'renown' tyers if they get a higher percentage. On second thought, of course they'd say 'Yes'! So maybe the next time you happen to be in the presence of such a tyer, drop 10 dry flies and see how they 'sit-up' or 'cock'. Or, drop 1 and see how many times it cocks upright. I think youi'll find your ratio well more than average.

Allan

[Steven]

that's very nice of you to say. I'll take some comfort in this I guess.

[AlanB]

I wouldn't worry either. How much of a useful test is this? I mean there are a whole lot more factors involved in how a fly will be presented when fishing than just how it falls.

You have already strayed away from the exact dressing of these flies by spreading the tail. As you've done this to improve functionality then I presume that effectiveness as a fishing fly is your major consideration. Maybe trim a V under the hackle, thats only one step further than you've gone already.

Cheers,
A.

[Steven]

I could always do the V thing, but that takes me too far from the "Catskill look."

There are things we naturally appreciate for the beauty because they have the right lines: English shotguns, Italian sports cars, Marilyn Monroe, Catskills.

[Byron haugh]

Steven,
This reminds me of a thread a couple months ago.....................
What pattern are you tying and what proportions are you using for wings, hackle, tail?

[Steven]

Steven,
This reminds me of a thread a couple months ago.....................
What pattern are you tying and what proportions are you using for wings, hackle, tail?

Over this past weekend, I was tying various olives using wood duck and mallard slips for wings, some with stripped peacock for the body, some with dubbing. Just practicing really.

I was tying 16s on a TMC 100 chassis. Wings and tails equal to hook shank plus eye. Wing tied in somewhere around the 70% mark on the shank. Collar hackle a size 14 on the Dette scale (looks pretty much like 2x the gape). 3 turns behind the wings, 3 turns in front...and a little bit of bare hook shank behind the eye (I think it looks classy).

[Byron haugh]

I once suggested the Dette scale and was told it was not what the Catskill tiers actually used.
I learned to tie "traditional" dry flies with this being the "test": a perfect float line - meaning that the tip of the tail, the bottom of the hook, and the hackle tips formed a straight line - the "float line". That worked for me.

But, like I said, we were all schooled a few months about this and told that the Dette scale is not a scale that corresponded to what "Catskill Tiers" used.