traditional wets

[foambug65]

ok , good day ..i have posted this is a few forums..just to recieve some very vague replys ..i live here in colorado ..fish the arkansas mostly ...an love to tie the traditionals ..however here is the problem..most trout flies are no bigger than a size 16 , most are a size 18-24 ..most traditional flies are in the 8-10 size ..now ..1.) what traditional flies work for here ..an 2.)without losing how the wet is suppose to lok how small can i go ..an still catch fish

[Buddy Sanders]

Foambug,

You can go down to an 18 if you are careful. However, dont' discount the effectiveness of larger size flies, even in waters where others typically use the 18-22s. Trout will take larger offerings when they can get them. Even on very technical waters you'd be surprised at how many fish, and usually the larger fish, will come to size 6-8 wooly buggers or leeches. Wet flies in the 8-10 sizes suggest several larger insects that the trout will eat, even in waters filled with midges.

Up to you, but I like that larger hook and the thicker tippets involved with them. I hook well and land more fish. Don't struggle with tying them on, and getting them out of the fish is easier too.

Buddy

[Panman]

Buddy hit the nail on the head .

Tim

[Byron haugh]

You might seine the stream you fish and see what size the insects are. The size of the resident insects determines the size of the trout flies. Yes, you can fish imitations of other trout food, but usually the most effective are the imitations of their most readily available natural insects.

[AlanB]

In the fly tying tradition I hale from, North Country of England, small flies were always tied short on larger hooks. A size 18 hook was about as small as they got a couple of hundred years ago. This limitation didn't seem to be a problem. Just tie over the first 1/4 of the hook shank. If you look at the illustrations in Pritt's North Country Flies you'll see very few dressing extending beyond the first half of the hook shank. This is probably due to the way hooks were made back then. A piece of dowel with pins in the end around which the wire was bent by hand. Fine wire in very short lengths is difficult to manipulate in this way.

If you are going to use small hooks then you may have to "play" with materials a little. Even a hen hackle in these sizes can be quite stiff. Game bird feathers are a better option. Rather than winding them trim a bunch of fibres off and chaise them around the hook shank with your thread. Its quite difficult to explain the process in just words but I'll try.
When you start the thread start it where you want the hackle to be. Run toward the bend and back to the start point tying in the tails, body and wings, as required. When you arrive back at the start point all that should be finished. If you looked at the fly from the eye you would have a small shoulder consisting of two layers of thread around the hook shank. Take your bunch of feather fibres and measure them for length against the fly. Change grip to the other hand. Place the bunch on top of the hook shank. Take your thread around the hook shank directly in front of the shoulder of thread. Don't pinch and loop. Wrap the thread under tension. As the thread is laid it will trap some fibres and push some around the hook shank. Once you have taken a full turn you should have trapped all the fibres. It takes practise, and I can't describe the "feel" of it. Once you get it it is a very quick easy process to make very small hackles. Secure with a second wrap then trim out the butts. Form the head with the whip finish.

If you want to tie winged wets then many of the materials used on larger flies will be just too bulky. For a fly like the Blae and Black in "normal" sizes (8 to 14) it is usual to use teal primary flight feather slips. If you want to tie this on a size 18 or 20 try starling primary flight feather slips. Similar in colour but much finer. Duck flank feathers (bronze mallard, teal etc.) are easy in smaller sizes. Just use less. If you want the wings to sit down on these flies use a thread that flattens like UTC 70 to avoid having a shoulder that will throw the wing up. Yes you are trying to avoid the shoulder I told you to make previously! Thread control becomes important in small flies. You'll find yourself spinning your bobbin a lot.

If the pattern calls for a floss body omit it. Use the tying thread in the right colour to form the body. On really tiny flies that call for peacock herl bodies you can pull the fibres off a single herl and dub them! Again it isn't easy, but you can do it.

Don't be afraid to shout out if you have problems with these, they are possible to tie, but it will be a learning curve. Every turn of thread has to count. Once you get to grips with these your tying of the larger flies will change considerably.

Cheers,
A.