"Personal Space" and "fishing etiquette"

[CT Bob]

A couple of recents posts here have caused me to revisit the question: I have fished with spinning gear for almost 20 years before switching to the fly rod six years ago. Why is it that spin/bait guys can literally stand shoulder to shoulder fishing a spot and everyone seems to be having a good time, but if you get within 50 yards of a guy waving a fly rod you get dirty looks and snotty comments about how you are invading his "personal" space? To me, this just reinforces the snob stereotype of the fly fisherman. I mean, it's a hobby for god's sake. It's not YOUR water and they are not YOUR fish. Gimme a break. Don't need to take it so seriously. Now I'm not defending the behavior of all the crowders, but when a guy plods through the rising fish you were just working, it's not like he just put down the only fish on the entire river.

In the past I have had a few confrontations-mostly with rafters who had too much to drink and too little brains, but as time has passed I realized three things: One, this is supposed to be fun, and getting upset at someone no matter how rude you think they are will take away from the fun. Two the water (in most cases) is public property and others have just as much right to be there, And three, you need to adjust your expectations to be realistic. If you make the choice to fish during the canoe hatch and then get mad when some drunken teenagers float right over your fish, you are partly to blame. If you go to the most well known pool on your favorite river during a big hatch, don't expect to have a lot of personal space.

Now I fish to get away from people, but I realize that this means putting in some extra effort since most people are lazy fair weather folks. Most of my trout fishing is done on the Farmington River. The catch and release area can get very crowded. I rarely fish there because of the crowds. Most of my honey holes are outside of the TMA and see few if any anglers at all. I also avoid fishing during the daytime in the warm weahter when not only are anglers about, but also rafters and other folks generally intruding on my personal space. Instead I spend my summers pursuing other fish species or fishing at night. If you really want solitude and "personal space" take up night fishing, you will have all the solitude you want. I also fish in the rain. That really keeps people away. Another thing that usually shakes the crowds is a little hiking. Since most people are lazy, the crowds will generally be found in the pools where the parking lot is right next to the water. Sometimes just a few short steps around the bend is enough to get you away from the crowds.

[Betty Hiner]

Well, thank you (she says smiling).
And have a nice day.

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Trouts don't live in ugly places

[mantis]

Gee CtBob most of the examples you giveare just plane rudeness by the interloper who you then defend by suggesting the first person in a particular spot is a 'snob' because he does not like someone casting to or walking through the fish he is casting to. I find that type of behavior very selfish regardless of the type of fishing the interloper is doing.
I quote you

" Now I'm not defending the behavior of all the crowders, (but then you go on to defend them) but when a guy plods through the rising fish you were just working, it's not like he just put down the only fish on the entire river."

Later on you suggest just moving 'around the bend'...gee, isn't that what the interloper should have done?

As far as spin fishermen 'shoulder to shoulder' with no problem you will usually see that on still water where they toss a lure out and reel straight back in or a worm with a heavy weight out and just let it sit there it is possible to do that. There is no backcast, there is no float of the fly line or drift caused by the wind on still water.. Fly fishing takes a little more room.
When I hear, "you don't own the river', or "the fish", or "the hole or pool," it always seems to be spoken by someone who thinks these statements will cover up their own rudeness, selfishness and inconsiderate attitude. Whether it is a spin fisherman or fly fisher who is in a spot first I always give them a wide birth.

As far as tubers and canoe hatches, I find it amusing how when a couple of these rental places open up on a narrow little river like the Batten Kill the owners joined every conservancey and river group around to protect their part of "our" river.
A study was recently done to figure out why fishing in the Batten Kill has gone so far down hill in the past years, that incidently just happens to coinside with the massive banging of canoe paddles by inexperienced canoists, roiling and kicking of the bottom by tubers and beer rafts of shouting, splashing occupants .
Lo and behold not a single mention of the hundred or more per hour tubes and canoes. We heard "the water is TOO clean. Too many Mergansers. The 2 pair of Bald Eagles had a lot to do with it. But not a word, not a single word of the banging, beer bottle tossing, noisey splashing tubers and canoe-ists.. Of course the wealthy owners of the rental places were in on the study and report..
Very few of these people have any consideration at all on this small and in most places shallow river for anglers. They have tried to reason with the owners and now only a 'suggestion' list is passed out. No bottles, only cans and kegs. On at 9 and off by 6... like they pay any attention. They are on the river sunup to sun set and not just on weekends. It is sad to see the river turned into a carnival ride and a dump.
No one minds occasional silent canoes nor finding certain of the deeper holes turned into swimming holes for the kids but the Battenkill has become a circus.

[sm2k]

You can't compare fly fishing and spin casting. When you're fly fishing you're working a stretch of river, and you're typically standing right in the middle of it. In order to not be fishing spooked fish, you need a good stretch of water in the direction that you're fishing (the direction you're fishing is another way of saying the direction you're MOVING).

I wade fish primarily, and might cover up to a quarter mile of river in an afternoon, the majority of which is directly in the water. The typical spin fisherman does not cover a lot of water, and is usually fishing from shore.

Many bait and tackle fishermen are quite content to lean a couple of rods over a bridge and hang out. Watchin the tip, watchin the tip, watchin the tip. Nothing wrong with it, but it certainly isn't irritating when somebody else throws a line over the bridge twenty feet away.

A large number of fly fishermen do not camp holes. Many of us don't even think in terms of holes. When I'm fishing I know where the fish are holding within my casting range, and I'm also eyeing the water upstream (or downstream, method depending), plotting my course. What's the safest approach, how stealthy do I need to be, and so on. It's a lot like becoming part of the stream for a few hours.

When somebody comes spashing into the water just ahead of me, it ruins the whole flow, and it becomes a game of leapfrog...which, interestingly enough, is a lot like spin fishing.

Fly fishermen who crowd are probably of the "hole" mentality. They see only the few best spots to fish on a stretch, and like a spin caster, will concentrate on them. They probably don't even realize that the guy they jumped ahead of 100 feet downstream is actually in the process of *moving*...just very slowly.

Apples and oranges on the river.

[LadyFisher]

I highly suggest you read BORN IN A BARN?
[url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ldy/ldy050106.html:f6a36]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ldy/ldy050106.html[/url:f6a36]

Unless of course you were raised by wolves and can't read.

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LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL

[ohiotuber]

CT Bob,
I fished with baitcasting & spinning gear darn near 50 years before I picked up flyfishing, & DAMNIT, RUDE is RUDE!! We were poor, but Dad ALWAYS made us learn the "sport courtesy" BEFORE taking up the sport...that included golf, bowling, fishing, etc. I was taught to give ALL types fishers a wide berth & not encroach upon their space. You are right, we DON'T "own" the river, but we ARE entitled to "respect"....as are all others fishing. How many times did you get a hook in your ear or scalp from a person standing 6 feet from you with a spinning rod? Probably never. Apply that same question to the flycaster. Besides being rude, it's unsafe. It requires some space.
Bottom line is that manners are manners, & I, for one, am sick & tired of seeing people excuse poor manners & boorish behavior. We may have been a poor family, but manners & consideration were, and still ARE, free. If that makes me a snob, thanks for the compliment


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You can call me Mike & you can call me Mikey..Just remember that this site's about sharing!



[This message has been edited by ohiotuber (edited 26 June 2006).]

[Jonezee]

Gee Tuber. you are making me think abut my squarden commander in the Air Force. I hated his guts, but I respected him. Like the Hindu believe, all gods creatures deserve respect. I suppose a river hogger can be considered a creature....? I'll leave it at that.

Oh and another thing, to quote a gentle lady, Have a nice day.

[This message has been edited by Jonezee (edited 26 June 2006).]

[cross creek]

Like most here, I started fishing with spin-casting gear (Zebco 202, if I remember), then moved to spinning, then the fly rod, although I made that transition between the ages of 4 and 11 a "few" decades ago. I still have a couple of UL spin outfits, but rarely use them anymore (love inshore panfishing for Spanish macks, flounder, and other coastals). When I started out, the major outdoor writers of the day, such as McClane, Bergman, and Waterman, fished whatever method was most appropriate to the conditions, and they always touted giving others space to pursue their fish, cleaning up after themselves, and using ones chosen tackle skillfully to hunt the game, whether that was a #20 Adams for brown trout or a live shiner for bass. These days, I see empty bait containers, potato chip bags, wads of mono, rusty hooks and lures, beer cans, and other less polite items strewn all over the place. The streams I fish are pretty much un-navigable, but on the lake I fish from the bank, I have repeatedly experienced boaters (fishermen and lookiloo's) floating right up into my casting zone with total disregard for my fishing (people also walk right up behind me and stand in my casting area). If I were hunting, they wouldn't do that (fear of guns, or noise, I guess), but people these days just don't have any sense of courtesy when it comes to fishing (or much else). Raised in a barn is part of the problem, as well as fishing being a "once-in-a-blue-moon" frolic for most of them, carrying little or no understanding of the sport (or that it is one). We can respond in many ways. I usually try to time my outings for less crowded periods of the day or week, hike farther, bite my tongue (as a career, sea-going naval officer, I could shock even the crudest of them if I let myself go), place my backcast about two feet from the idiots' faces (all that rhodedendron tunnel fishing is good for something, after all). I pick up as much of their garbage as I can to haul out--I've seen private water closed to everyone because of littering. I should get involved in teaching youngsters to fish the right way, but my time seems always to be taken up with (supposedly) more important things, so I place a bit of the blame on myself, and the rest of us who're too busy or selfish. It takes a village (no political bent intended).

[rookie]

I guess it's up to each person as to how they will best influence someone else and what kind of influence they wish to leave. I personally don't subordinate my "etiquette" based on others lack there of, or I should say "lack there of in my opinion." My etiquette is "my own personal standard of what etiquette is." The less I expect of someone else, the happier and more content I am in this life.

This is not meant to offend anyone, it's just my approach to enjoying what I do and letting others enjoy or try to enjoy whatever it is they are doing.



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Steve (Rookie)

[J Castwell]

You are not always "preaching to the choir" when you post in here. I am glad to see your comments straight and honest. You never know who will read this and what they will do with the ideas you have communicated to them. My column this week is on this too.

I can't say if the junk at the fishing sites is worse than 50 years ago or not. Percentage wise are people worse? I really don't know and am probably glad I don't.I would hate to think folks have degraded ethics regarding refuse. I have used spinning gear ever since Johnson made a reel but don't think I would consider myself a polluter or 'Litter-Bug".

It seems most of the fly fishers I know came from the ranks of 'spinners'. Either a person has ethics or does not. Sometimes though,,, they can be 'honed' a little and that is one of the reasons for FAOL.