Can someone help me evaluate used Bamboo Rods?

[kbproctor]

Saying a Montague is a lousy rod is like saying TFO makes lousy rods. Are they the top of the line? No, but they aren't junk, either. Even the Japanese rods sold by the thousands after WWII have a place. Millions of fish were caught with them and millions of memories made with them. There were various grades of rods then just as there are now.

The Montague was a line of blue collar rods that were made to be affordable. Every now and then, they came out with a sweetheart rod that folks still try to find. A Montague in decent condition will give you an inexpensive rod to work with and see if you like bamboo. Just like a Sage should cast nicer than a TFO, A Heddon should be nicer to fish than a Montague, but that should not put anything against either the Montague or TFO. There are lots of Montagues still out there and they are still fair rods.

Now. As for the shorty rods. Yes many of them are made from the tip and mid section from another rod or rods. My absolute favorite small stream rod is a little "scrounge" rod I put together out of the tip from one rod, mid from another, and other pieces parts laying around the shop. I don't think I have $20 in that rod but it sure is fun to fish! That is the object of the whole exercise, isn't it? To have fun?

Of the rods you listed, I would certainly try to snag the Heddon. That could be a screaming deal. The Phillipson would make a nice rod as well. You will learn from any of them.

[rwabdu]

All good points. I want to get a rod that is a good investment if I buy one. I will keep your thoughts in mind, still waiting to hear back on the black beauty!

[bobbyg]

In today's world, the weight of a bamboo rod does not mean as much as it once did. I have fished with most of the rods previously named in my earlier post in lengths up to 9 ft., including Heddon's and Grangers, with a couple of South Bends thrown in for good measure, and I do not find them to be any heavier, or 'tiring' to cast, than any of my graphite rods. I even have a 9ft. Shakespeare "Texas Bass Bugger" that is classified as a 'heavy' bamboo rod, yet it is definitely useable.

With respect to Heddon, they had a very unique way of 'referencing' their rods. It was based on their own numbering system for the ferrules. They were numeric alpha, with F being the alpha component in all of them. By way of example, a 1F would be a trout rod, whereas a 2 3/4F would be a heavy trout/bass rod.

There is currently a 8 1/2 ft 3/2 Montague "Redwing", a highly prized rod, listed that is currently at under $90.00. It comes complete with bag and tube. Any "sets" in it should not be a 'deal breaker', as sets are very easy to fix.

Just make sure that ALL sections are the same length! There is one currently listed that claims all sections are the same length, but the posted photo clearly shows one tip shorter than the other! However, given the rod brand, the current bid is not unreasonable.

It would help if you stated what kind of fishing, and under what conditions, you plan to use it.

If you have never cast bamboo, it will take some getting used to, as they typically require a much slower casting stroke than graphite. Also, once you get them 'loaded', they all but 'cast themselves'.

Might I ask why in today's world the weight of a bamboo rod would mean any less than it once did?
Heddon never built a rod on a 1F ferrule.

Original poster, where and what size water are you wanting to fish your bamboo rod?

[saltydancindave]

The bamboo rods I used to fish with ( they now collect dust in rod racks ) are a whole lot heavier than todays graphite or fiberglass. Add an old big heavy fly reel to counter balance the bamboo & you've got something 12 ounce curls won't help with ! Fish for hours with a heavier bamboo & quart curls might seem insignificant ! Great to cast to get in shape for the #10 thru #13 weight saltwater fly rods. Modern technology has outfits, rod & reel at 6 ounces or less & bamboo rods from 8' - 9' are about 6 oz just for the bamboo strips without weighing the rest. Probably why it means less than what it used to.

[redietz]

Heddon never built a rod on a 1F ferrule.

This is really nit-picking, but "never" may be too strong of a word. According to Michael Sinclair's book on Heddon rods, "... it is believed that some of the 7 foot [series 100] rods were built on a 1F (15/64) ferrule."

They certainly built rods with F sizes less than 1 (with designations like 00, 0 1/2, 0 3/4 and 0), so strictly speaking the poster was correct in saying "a 1F would be a trout rod". Well, yes it would be if they in fact ever built any that size.

[bobbyg]

This is really nit-picking, but "never" may be too strong of a word. According to Michael Sinclair's book on Heddon rods, "... it is believed that some of the 7 foot [series 100] rods were built on a 1F (15/64) ferrule."

They certainly built rods with F sizes less than 1 (with designations like 00, 0 1/2, 0 3/4 and 0), so strictly speaking the poster was correct in saying "a 1F would be a trout rod". Well, yes it would be if they in fact ever built any that size.

Not attempting to nitpick just trying to dispel an inaccuracy.
I've been collecting and studying bamboo rods for many years now and have never seen a Heddon rod built on the 15/64ths ferrule.
It may be believed but until one surfaces with 1F inked on it I'll continue to believe they never existed.

[aged_sage]

saltydancindave...

Just for grins, I weighed the following rods from my 'arsenal'. All are completed rods, ready for a reel and line and water.

Graphite
2 pc 9ft 9wt Fisher 4 1/4 oz; 2 pc. 9ft 9wt St.Croix 4 1/4oz; 2 pc. 9ft 7wt. Fenwick HMG 4.0 oz

Bamboo
Heddon Victory 3pc. 9ft 5 1/2 oz; Heddon Stream and Lake 3pc. 9ft. 5 3/4oz.; Granger Victory 3pc. 9ft. 5 1/4 oz; Shakespeare Texas Bug Rod 3pc. 9ft. 6 3/4 oz; Heddon "X" (Just has "Heddon " stamped on butt cap) 3 pc. 9ft. 5 1/4oz; Heddon #10 3 pc. 9ft. 6 1/4 oz.

These weights clearly are not in accord with your contention that bamboo rods are much heavier than graphite or glass, and that "...rods from 8'-9' are about 6 oz just for the bamboo strips...". To reiterate, these bamboo rods all have metal ferrules, guides, hook keepers, signature wraps; metal winding checks; handles, and reel seats installed. All are 9ft., and all but two, which are 'heavy trout/bass rods' weigh somewhat less than 6oz., and weigh within 1 oz. of comparable graphite rods.

My old, Shakespeare "Art Howald Process" 7 ft 9 in. first generation hollow fiber glass rod tips the scales at 5 1/4 oz.

I fail to see that much variation in the weights of these rods, and the old bamboos do not need "...old big heavy to counterbalance...". I use the very same reels for both my bamboo and my graphite rods, as do most fishers of both.

[dave potts]

You might want to check this guy out. He makes Banty rods from the upper two sections of three piece rods. I've seen his rods at a flyfishing conclave and he does very nice work. They sell for a reasonable price also.

Dave

http://moosecreekrodsandknives.com/index.html

[aged_sage]

kb...

I would only add the following to your comments about the vintage so-called 'trade rods'; not only did Montague, but also H-I, and Southbend, to name a few more, also made a few "Cadillacs" along with their standard run of "Chevrolets". To specifically name a rod for each, there is the Montague "Red Wing", the H-I "Tonka Queen", and the Southbend "290". All three are highly sought after today.

With respect to your "scrounge rod", my first one had a similar beginning, but it was made originally from the mid- and tip of an old Wards 9ft. Thorobred. Upon completion, it handled a 3wt beautifully. "Scrounging" through my 'odds-and-ends' box one day, I realized that I had an extra tip, of unknown origin, that appeared to be a 'fit' for the little jewel. Sure enough, the ferrule was a perfect fit, as was the length and bamboo color. Refinished this tip, which is a bit heavier, dimension wise, than the original, and gave it a whorl. It failed miserably with a 3 wt. I jumped to a 5 wt line, and was astounded! Handles it like it was made for it. I now have what I refer to as a 2/2/2 (2 cubed) rod: 2 pieces; 2 tips; and 2 line weights! I have made a second one, and it is a solid 5wt.

All of this hoopla about the old trade rods, and the japanese rods being less than worthless, reminds me of the experience a close friend had playing golf on a private 'high-dollar' course where he was playing as a guest. As they were finishing up on a tee box, another group came up to wait there turn. My friend overheard one of the guys in the other group ask one of them, also a guest, why he did not move into this highly restrictive gated community. The guy's response was there there were too many less than $1,000,000.00 homes in it to suit him!

Cheers!

[bobbyg]

saltydancindave...

Just for grins, I weighed the following rods from my 'arsenal'. All are completed rods, ready for a reel and line and water.

Graphite
2 pc 9ft 9wt Fisher 4 1/4 oz; 2 pc. 9ft 9wt St.Croix 4 1/4oz; 2 pc. 9ft 7wt. Fenwick HMG 4.0 oz

Bamboo
Heddon Victory 3pc. 9ft 5 1/2 oz; Heddon Stream and Lake 3pc. 9ft. 5 3/4oz.; Granger Victory 3pc. 9ft. 5 1/4 oz; Shakespeare Texas Bug Rod 3pc. 9ft. 6 3/4 oz; Heddon "X" (Just has "Heddon " stamped on butt cap) 3 pc. 9ft. 5 1/4oz; Heddon #10 3 pc. 9ft. 6 1/4 oz.

These weights clearly are not in accord with your contention that bamboo rods are much heavier than graphite or glass, and that "...rods from 8'-9' are about 6 oz just for the bamboo strips...". To reiterate, these bamboo rods all have metal ferrules, guides, hook keepers, signature wraps; metal winding checks; handles, and reel seats installed. All are 9ft., and all but two, which are 'heavy trout/bass rods' weigh somewhat less than 6oz., and weigh within 1 oz. of comparable graphite rods.

My old, Shakespeare "Art Howald Process" 7 ft 9 in. first generation hollow fiber glass rod tips the scales at 5 1/4 oz.

I fail to see that much variation in the weights of these rods, and the old bamboos do not need "...old big heavy to counterbalance...". I use the very same reels for both my bamboo and my graphite rods, as do most fishers of both.

Those are some rather heavy line weight graphite rods you cite. Naturally they are gonna come in at 4 oz. or more.
Most graphite trout rods, relatively speaking, in the 4 to 6 weight class are gonna weigh around 3 oz. or less.

Heddon never made a Victory model and the Stream and Lake was produced by Wright & McGill Granger.