This is similar to another thread. As great as Al Troth was and as advanced as his thinking was, at the time, do you think that the fly would have been developed by someone else later?
The same would apply to a lot of other standard patterns?
Had there been no Al Troth, would there still have been an Elk Hair Caddis?
This is similar to another thread. As great as Al Troth was and as advanced as his thinking was, at the time, do you think that the fly would have been developed by someone else later?
The same would apply to a lot of other standard patterns?
Byron,
As I've said before and elsewhere, fy tyers are very innovative. Just look at what items used in other areas have been used in fly tying or the unique methods developed or the imagination of Atlantic Salmon tyers of mid-late 19th century Europe. Having said that my answer to your question is an emphatic YES! Come to think of it, what makes you think that the fly was not developed by someone other then Mr. Troth, prior to, at the same approximate time or after? This in no way takes anything away or diminishes Mr. Troth's innovation and widespread acceptance of his initial pattern.
Yes, it's a pretty small leap from a Bucktail Caddis to an Elk hair Caddis. However I feel there is more to Mr. Troth's design than just a hair-wing palmered body dry fly. It's a well thought out design, efficient to tie and can be easily packaged to imitate any Caddis species. There certainly would have been an Elk Hair Caddis but I'm not sure it would have been as elegant.
How about a Clouser Minnow or Lefty's Deceiver? I think something similar, but not the same, could have come about. I might put Puglisi's baitfish imitations in another category, though.
I also think that the last 10-15 years has been sort of a period of explosion in fly tying and design. If you think back to the era of Al Troth, you realize that not that many fishers were also tiers. In addition, there was not the internet, so many magazines and books on the subject. The sharing of ideas and concepts of fly tying were not well known then.
So, it was a slower time for fly development. And, a lot fewer participants to develop, share, and popularize new patterns.
I agree with that! You can probably tell I have a bit more of a saltwater orientation. Lots of new stuff developed on that front in the more recent past, especially with the newer epoxy formulations (DL Goddard's, spoon flies for example). Byron, you mentioned another thread in your original post. Which one?
Kind of a silly question if you ask me ... and since it's an open forum, you did.
Considering that two people were independently working on the invention of radio, more than one working one electricity and it's many applications, more than one busily inventing flying vehicles, etc. etc.
With billions of people in this world, somebody will inadvertently duplicate someone else's design. It's the old existential equation ... if you have a million monkeys randomly typing on a million typewriters, one of them will eventually type out a Shakespeare worthy work of art. With 300 million plus people in this this country alone ... that's a lot of monkeys !!!
"Give advice when asked. Give praise when appropriate. Give discipline when needed. Give respect always."
The Thread is "New to me"Originally Posted by zaxaca
Byron,
In a word "NO". Eventually did come in 1957 for one person, Al Troth. His imagination, style, talents, experience and the material he had on hand made up the "Elk Hair Caddis".
I am still waiting for the day that I will say something, do something, invent something so prolific that people will say, I would have eventually come up with that.
Respectfully,
Sean
Last edited by Lake Erie High Ball; 09-18-2012 at 01:41 AM. Reason: Ops
Thanks Old Man GO IRISH!
Maybe not the "exact" pattern using the same hair, wire rib, tying style...etc. But certainly something that would have caught fish due to the same attributes that Al Troth envisioned.
For instance...I no longer tie the EHC in the classic manner even though Al's version is what I am working off of. I do not use the rib, do not use his same tying sequence, and I add a slight chin to the pattern.
Somebody would have done it. But probably not exactly like Al Troth did it. That's why he will remain a piece fo our flyfishing history.
Ralph
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