Hair spinning/stacking problems

[Fishingfiend]

Okay, so I've been learning the art of spinning deer hair for a little over a month now. Today, while stuck inside waiting for Isaac to decide if it's just going to blow, or rain, I discovered one of my problems. I've always had a problem with the whole mass of hair spinning instead of staying where I want it. Truly frustrating any attempts at stacking. I've assumed that it was something I was doing wrong, thread tension or something. When I lay thread on the hook, to start the fly, I usually put a drop of superglue (Zap Gel) and wrap over it.
But as I was spinning, the whole mass started slipping around again. This time, I realized that the glue was holding the thread together, but not holding the thread to the hook.

So, are there any good spinners out there ... and if so, how do you lay thread down so that it won't slip when you tighten down on a flare?

[rainbowchaser]

If I understand the problem correctly, try taking a loose wrap around the bundle of hair before setting it in place on the hook. Then place it on the hook and flair it as usual. The wrap should keep it from sliding around the hook

[ScottP]

I like to have a good thread base; despite all I've heard about spinning on a bare hook, I've never had trouble spinning on thread, at least to get things started. Pulled a couple shots from a bullethead hopper I tied; not the same as a bass bug, I know, but it still applies when you're putting that first bunch of hair on the hook.


UTC 140 works great



trim the butts, a couple soft loops and then pull firmly, letting the hair spin around the shank



like so



I do admit when packing a lot of deer hair on progressive applications, it's easier to work on a bare shank.

Regards,
Scott

[Byron haugh]

To flair hair (as in a comparadun when you want the hair to be on only one side of the hook), you need a thread base as the hair will "sled" on the smooth bare hook. It is very important, when flairing hare, not to let go of the butts in the slightest until you have really cinched down on the hair, causing it to flair.

To SPIN hair (360 around the hook), you want a bare hook so the hair "spins" around the hook.

[aged_sage]

For stacking hair for a hair bug, place the first clump on top of the hook and take two wraps over the hair clump, the second one directly on top of the first one. TURN LOOSE OF BOTH THE HAIR AND THE THREAD, LETTING THE BOBBIN HANG STRAIGHT DOWN ON THE BACK SIDE! THE HAIR IS NOT GOING TO SLIP! (Do this just once to convince yourself that the hair wont slip!)Next, take the bobbin and PULL STRAIGHT DOWN. Have your non-tying hand resting on the head of the vise, with the thumb just behind the hair clump. As you pull down, the clump will begin to move down and around the hook. Once the hair is on the underside of the hook, place the thumb squarely down on top of the clump to hold it in place ( this stops it from further spinning), and apply maximum tension to the thread. Remove your thumb, and take two or three quick wraps directly on top of the first two. This will lock the hair in place. Continue by stacking an equal amount of hair on top of the hook. Be sure to make ALL thread wraps, for both clumps, directly on top of one another. Once the top clump is in place, move the thread through the hair to infront of the two clumps, and with the thumb, index and middle finger (the 'three-point' grasp), pull all of the hair back towards the bend of the hook and make several tight wraps (3-5) as close to the base of the hair clumps as possible. This will lock the hair in an upright position. Repeat the process, packing each set of clumps as tightly as possible back against the previous bundles.

That's all there is to it! Like taking candy from a baby, once you get the hang of it.

The secret is in using ONLY TWO thread wraps, pulling STRAIGHT DOWN, as opposed to three wraps and pulling towards you, or in some other direction.

Good luck!

[Fishingfiend]

I appreciate all of the advise, but you've missed the point. I can do everything you've said. But when i start to do the next bunch of hair, the previous batch spins farther. This picture of a diver I did is a perfect example. The yellow was SUPPOSED to be on the bottom ... ended up on top.
hair bug 006a.jpg

[sandfly]

after spinning the hair so the yellow is on bottom you need to take several wraps through the hair to hold in place, then do the top one but do not spin just tie in on top and tighten the thread letting the hair flare while holding the hairfrom spinning around hook shank. add a few wraps to hold through the hair and proceed to pack the hair tight. then proceed to next spinng and flare...

[Fishingfiend]

Okay, once again, let me rephrase the original post. I am not having problems with the spinning and the stacking. I am having problems with the whole thing ... the original thread base, everything spins.
My question should have been: Has anyone had a problem with the thread base spinning and how do you lay down the original base without it later spinning on the hook?

[ScottP]

Okay, once again, let me rephrase the original post. I am not having problems with the spinning and the stacking. I am having problems with the whole thing ... the original thread base, everything spins.
My question should have been: Has anyone had a problem with the thread base spinning and how do you lay down the original base without it later spinning on the hook?

Thought I gave it my best shot here

I like to have a good thread base; despite all I've heard about spinning on a bare hook, I've never had trouble spinning on thread, at least to get things started. Pulled a couple shots from a bullethead hopper I tied; not the same as a bass bug, I know, but it still applies when you're putting that first bunch of hair on the hook.




UTC 140 works great

I lay a good thread base (that's about 10 wraps back and 10 wraps forward; could probably get away with half that to start a deer hair bug) with the right stuff and I have no, repeat, no problems. It spins where and when I want it to.

Regards,
Scott

[tailingloop]

Okay, once again, let me rephrase the original post. I am not having problems with the spinning and the stacking. I am having problems with the whole thing ... the original thread base, everything spins.
My question should have been: Has anyone had a problem with the thread base spinning and how do you lay down the original base without it later spinning on the hook?

I had the same problem when I started. I do not use a thread base other than the first section of hair that I put in over the wraps that hold the tail in place. Although I have watched Dave Whitlock spin and stack hair over a thread base I have not been able to pack the hair as tightly using a thread base.

Looking at your example image it looks to me like the hair might not be packed tight enough. I found that if I do not pack the hair tight enough sections of the body if not the whole body are more likely to spin.

Another thing I found is that I was that if I reduced the amount of hair in each bundle I could cinch it down tighter. So I started using more bundles with less hair per bundle. Other than that I tie just like Aged Sage describes.