LEADERS AND TIPPETS - Eye of the Guide - Jul 30, 2012

[Fly Goddess]

I am pretty much the same thought. If it can go through the eye, that is why I use 6x on a #32, but I got to be honest, there was one case the catch was low till I switched to a 7X. There is a butt for every seat.

[lastchance]

My buddy swears that you have to fish tricos on 7X because the fish know (can see it). I seem to have as many takes with the 6X I use. We're both happy so I guess that's all that counts. As I was learning to fly fish my mentor only went as small as 6X for any fishing. I think many of our beliefs come from the people who taught us. There are no absolutes in fly fishing and I think we sometimes for that.

John, a buddy and I use orange sleeve indicators on our leaders. Not as floats just to help see them. We had so many fish trying to eat the orange indicators that he started tying beetles out of orange foam. They work like a charm when the fish are looking up during the warmer months. Don't know if it's the orange color, but it suredoesn't hurt.

[aged_sage]

As "Johhny-Come-Lately" to this thread, I have a question and a couple of comments. My first question has to do with post #8 by Flygodess. Are you saying that silk lines have a core, and implying that today's modern lines do not? This is how I interpret what you said. I believe it is the other way around; no core in silk, and a definite core in our modern lines. It is the core in modern lines that make the needle knot and the 'knotless' connection, developed by Dave Whitlock and Joe Robinson, possible.

With respect to the Shimizaki tool, it appears to be nothing more than a 'knockoff' of the tool used by Whitlock and Robinson, a simple pin-vise, for doing their knotless leader connection, and more than just a plain sewing needle for the 'needle knot', which has been highly advocated by Gary Borger for at least 20 years.

John, I admire your bravery for attempting to slay such a sacred cow as fish seeing tippets vs drag as reasons for refusals, as well as the necessity of long and fine leaders! I attempted this same thing some time back on a different forum in response to a totally ridiculous statement that had beenposted, and was nearly tarred and feathered! I agree 100% with what you have said so far, and which position I base my background in the science, especially fisheries biology, on.

I too endorse furled leaders!

Cheers.

[NJTroutbum]

I do 95% of my fishing with a 5'5" olive furled leader and 4-6' of 5-7x flourocarbon tippet. When fishing trico's and midges, I most often use the 7X flouro (Maxknot). I very rarely go larger than 5X for trout.

All my connections are loop/loop. I use a simple fishermans loop for my tippet loop. When I go larger than 5X on tippet I use a double fishermans loop.

Ralph

[JohnScott]

I do 95% of my fishing with a 5'5" olive furled leader and 4-6' of 5-7x flourocarbon tippet. When fishing trico's and midges, I most often use the 7X flouro (Maxknot). I very rarely go larger than 5X for trout.

All my connections are loop/loop. I use a simple fishermans loop for my tippet loop. When I go larger than 5X on tippet I use a double fishermans loop.

Ralph

... brought to mind another issue that Tom touched on briefly in his article - fly size to tippet size ratio.

Here is a chart from Orvis with recommendations -

Tippet Size	Tippet Diameter	Approximate breaking strength in Super Strong nylon (pounds)	Balances with fly sizes:
8X	.003"	1.75	22, 24, 26, 28
7X	.004"	2.5	18, 20, 22, 24
6X	.005"	3.5	16, 18, 20, 22
5X	.006"	4.75	14, 16, 18
4X	.007"	6	12, 14, 16
3X	.008"	8.5	6, 8, 10
2X	.009"	11.5	4, 6, 8
1X	.010"	13.5	2, 4, 6
0X	.011"	15.5	1/0, 2, 4
.012	.012"	18.5	5/0, 4/0,3/0, 2/0
.013	.013"	20	5/0, 4/0,3/0, 2/0
.015	.015"	25	5/0, 4/0,3/0, 2/0

According to Orvis, when I fish a large FEB salmonfly pattern, I should be using something like 0X or 1X tippet, and when I fish an FEB golden stone, I should be using 1X or 2X.

I fish both of them off a thread furled leader with about 4' of 4X tippet, which obviously means I'm unbalanced. ( That probably doesn't surprise a lot of you. )

Even with the smaller tippet for the larger flies, I'm pretty sure that a good number of the refusals of those flies are due to drag issues related to tippet effect. That begs the question, how much higher would the refusal rate be if I had a big ol' tapered mono leader with really big ol' tippet pushing and pulling the fly around ??

John

P.S. Since my typical drake, PMD, BWO, and caddis patterns are all within the fly size to tippet size ratio recommended by Orvis, I guess I'm balanced at least some of the time.

[Fly Goddess]

On rivers I put a 4 lb fluoro tippet on a 5' to 7' furled leader. Flies vary in sizes and that chart goes right out the window. LOL

[NJTroutbum]

I agree, I'm a little off of the traditional chart as well. Rule of thumb for dries, using flouro?

5x: #6-#10
6X: #12-#16
7X: #18-#24

[Fly Goddess]

I use fluoro for everything.

[JohnScott]

I use fluoro for everything.

Being very open minded, I tried fluoro. I had the same reaction that Tom expressed in his article. It didn't do anything for me that mono won't do. Being the thrifty type, I stopped using it.

I still have some on the spools I bought quite some time ago. As I understand it, or maybe misunderstand it, that stuff will last forever out in the sunlight, water, and weather. No telling how long it will last in a cool, dark, dry place in my pack.

John

[NJTroutbum]

I like the smaller diameter to strength ratio. And when nymphing...especially when patterns fall below #14....I find Flouro to make a huge difference.